[mark.laycock1@ntlw]

hi all. what and how is best to remove gum from tarmac?

[trevor perry]

to remove gum of tarmac i have found the best solution is to have the pressure at about 1500psi with a flow rate of about 9litres a minute and the temperature as hot as you can get it , if the psi and flowrate is higher than this then you can easily damage the tarmac but if you use one of the steam guns then you will find removing gum a very slow process, i have also found that after removing the gum it is necassary to clean the whole area using the whirlaway otherwise it can look a right mess with the parts where gum has been removed being cleaner than evertwhere else.

[mark.laycock1@ntlw]

thanks for that. how would you advertise gum removel?

[Rob_Mac]

Mark

It is a little more complicated than that and end product is important in this field.

We do a great deal of gum removal on our commercial work. Pressure and flow rate do not always work.

With old gum you can generally blow it from the surface as it is brittle and the surface bonding that takes place has been broken down by the elements.

New gum that has been down about a week to a month again will lift easily with water and flow rate.

Then you have the gum that has been down for about a year, hard on top and grips any surface like a migrant under a train, through the channel tunnel.

No amount of pressure will get this off.

Dry steam is used in conjunction with a  chewing gum removal solution, the solution begins to break down the adhesion and the steam accelerates the process of lifting the gum.

Because of how long chewing gum removal takes using either dry steam or pressure washer it should be charged high and you should work out with either method how long it is going to take to do a populated area and do all pricing from this.

The preferred method is dry steam - even though it takes longer because you can use it in live areas - where you have people around you all day.

Also because the steam machines can be run from a silent generator you don't have to worry about noise if you are working through the night.

We have cleaned using both methods and to be honest there isn't a lot of difference on lifting times but the end result using steam and solution is that you are not left with a soaking wet area and you do not have the marks left where the gum had lived for a while

Rob

[Rob_Mac]

Trevor is right about the damage that can be done to Tarmac and I in no way want to diminish his reply.

Rob

[mark.laycock1@ntlw]

hi.so if i had an area to remove gum and said i would clean the area to how much would you charge for this?

[Rob_Mac]

Mark

Is it heavily soiled - whats the size of it.

Charge by the metre or go on a day rate with a rough estimate of how many days it will take

I would want about £600 - £700.00 per day for chewing gum removal but for that they would get a lot of gum removed

Rob

[trevor perry]

hi rob
     i have to disagree on your thoughts on dry steam machines we  to use these but find them only usefull in heavy pedestrian areas where you cant have any water spray we find them very slow infact about 5 times slower than using the hot water system and the little steel brushes on the end dont last very long we also find that the solution used with these machines leaves a very slippery surface after and so still needs washing down with the pressure washer, if i was mark try both methods and see which works best for you. once again be aware how slippy floor is left using  steam and solution i think it is a major problem with this method.

[Rob_Mac]

Trevor

The machines that you used did they have the chemical application through the trigger - as this is not our experience

Rob

[trevor perry]

yes they did and we try to avoid using them whenever we can we find our hot wash much safer and much faster and in some instances even turn it down to aboout 400psi but extremely hot and find with a plastic hood on end of lance there is very little spray and can be used more or less anywhere.

[Rob_Mac]

You cannot run a couple of pressure washers at night in a residential & built up area with a noise curfew.

Most of our work has noise restrictions on it and all sites are live whilst we are working till the last week.

With a gum cart you don't have the same problems with trailing hoses - as you can contain yourself within a safe area.

I understand that heat works very well for chewing gum but similarly if you were a building manager would you want pressure washers thumping out  high noise levels for several hours at a time.

Our smallest pressure washer has a decibel rating of 93 - the requirement for noise protection is 83 - in this rating we have not included any contact noise with the surface being cleaned or accelerated noise from echo and noise being channeled of other elevated surfaces.

Most pressure washers will exceed the noise rating thus putting others within direct contact in a situation where you could be challenged on noise abatement issues.

We both agree that both ways are useful and work but if you want a decisive, conclusive, safe and within noise guidelines way of clearing the streets of gum, with no trailing hoses ( because you aren't attached to a vehicle) the gum carts though slower - slightly, cause less nuisance overall and will clear the whole of the gum - including the black mark, left over the gum cart will always win out.

It is the difference between using a sledgehammer and a pin hammer

I wanted to be able to use our pressure washers for this purpose - we have heat  but our client wants the problem resolved with finesse and not braun - so its about the whole package, health and safety (the noise issues created), and that we clean tens of thousands of metres of surfaces, tarmac, block and slab every month.

The other side of this is that you may be doing yourselves an injustice in charging the prices that you could charge if you went down the dry steam route as all the operators we have spoken to and that is many  agree that there is an increased value on this method of cleaning compared to pressure washing.

It's not an argument and debate is good - from our point of view steam is best

Rob

[trevor perry]

good luck rob you have obviously found a method that works for you and your clients are willing to pay the amounts you claim, we too clean thousands of metres of the stuff a year  at a fraction of the prices you are charging and after using both methods prefer not to use dry steam unless absolutelly necassary.
  i take issue with the comment about us useing braun and no finnesse if you read my earlier post then you will see we can turn our machine down to 400psi which is less pressure than some operators use to clean carpets so it is hardly a sledghammer approach and you also mention it being unsafe due to trailing hoses, if trailing hoses is such a major safety issue then you had better get rid of your wfp and find a safer method, the fact is if the trailing hoses are laid sensibly and appropriate warning signs used then they are not an issue.
  i do agree dry steam does have advantages in that it is quieter and a small drum of water will last for hours but in the price sensitive contracts we have it just isnt viable to use dry steam due to the time needed to do the job,
  so as said in earlier post there or occasions when we will use dry steam but it is in no way our preffered method and if you so both ways working side by side then you would agree.

[mark.laycock1@ntlw]

hi , what are other people prices for this? i have a place to go and look at this week.mark

[Rob_Mac]

Trevor

None of the comments written were intended as a personal pop at you and your operation - I have agreed that both ways have their merits and we obviously have different customer bases.

For us noise is a real issue and we have had to move away from the pressure washer approach.

I wish your business and yourself much success in the new year

Rob

[trevor perry]

hi mark a set rate for this type of work without seeing is hard to say as the amount of chewing gum can vary vastly and it can also vary on the size of the job also as seen in previous posts people use different methods so without knowing which method is being used estimating the time it would take could be difficult, for instance on some very large jobs on standard flags with little pedestrian traffic we have gone as low as 30 pence a metre but on other jobs where there have been issues and the amount of chewing gum has been as high as 100pieces per metre we have charged upto £4 a metre , the only advice i can give is estimate the time it will take with the equipment you are using and put the hourly rate you would be happy with after a few jobs you will soon get used to estimating the times things take.

[mark.laycock1@ntlw]

hi trevor, i was told to price a clean in with the job them try to remove what gum is left over.mark

[Rob_Mac]

Trevor

If you don't use your steam machines are you  intersted in getting rid of them

Rob

[trevor perry]

we only have one and as said we do use it on the odd occasion but thanks for the offer.
   trevor