[Martin S]

As one of the 'Holy Grails' of Carpet cleaning seems to be fast drying times.  I have a question about the use of CFR wands with non CFR portables.

From what I can gather from previous posts, some CC's use CFR wands with standard machines.

As far as I understand it, your machine must have sufficient PSI in order to use a CFR wand (or handtool come to that).

According to Amtech, their machines, in most circumstances, recover up to 93% of the water injected into the Carpet, and have some of the shortest drying times in the industry.  This is done with a machine with only One Vac' motor.

I am presuming that this is due to the different design of the CFR wand, and the way it is used.

Without wishing to open up the great debate, about whether CFR or otherwise is best, my question is:-  If you put a high end, high PSI, 3 Vac' portable, such as the Recoil or Eclipse, against a CFR machine, both using CFR wands, and both set at say, 500 PSI,  would not the 3 Vac portable win hands down every time?? 

This begs the question,  why don't traditional high PSI extractors use CFR type wands? (Excepting any Patents of course)  Or why don't CFR use 3 Vac' motors? 

I realise of course that CFR recycles it's water, and one of their big selling points, is that they can use high PSI because the water is re-used, and frequent fill ups/emptying is not an issue.

Or is there another element of the equation that I have missed that explains it?   

Regards.

Martin S


 

[Mark Roberts]

I have read that the CFR system recovers 95% of water and reactivated soils, since using this system I have noticed far greater drying times.

If the wand is recovering 95% of what is put down does it mater whether you have 1 motor or 3 ?. I would think not.

Like you say though if your machine does not recycle the water you will have to make a lot of trips to fill up.

Mark.

[Dynafoam]

Chaps,

Sightly side-stepping the question, it is worth noting that % recovery rates can be deceptive.

To illustrate, a wand with very fine jets is likely to have a lower % recovery rate than a wand with very large jets - but leave the carpet dryer.

The CFR concept does not rely of water lift and since a twin-vac machine, with both units mounted in series (VO) will give pretty much the same airflow as the single-vac CFR machine, the cleaning result should be very similar.

With AO machines there should be some advantage from additional vac units, but since the CFR was designed as a complete system, the advantage may not be as great as may be expected - it's all a matter of balance.

Nigel, I know, has been using a CFR floor wand with a Recoil-3 HP and also with his TM, so he will be better qualified to compare results between this and conventional wands.

Some modification would be required since CFR place the solution valve on the hose rather than on the wand itself.

[Martin S]

Mark R,

I wasn't knocking the CFR.  It was just that the thought occured to me, so I asked the question.

I wonder if anyone, manufacturers or operators has ever attempted a comparison, i.e. same carpet, same area to clean (side by side), X Water used, Y Water recovered.

Or is this too simplistic an approach?

John B,

Usual constructive answer, as expected.

Regards.

Martin S

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Martin,

I know you are not knocking the system, beleive me, it took me a while to get my head around it. I didnt think it would work as effective as it does. Like John said it works on air flow not vacuum performance and has been designed as a complete system. I would think the wand would work well with any porty.

One thing I have noticed is when using the machine for long periods ie an hours worth of carpet cleaning you can tell how much solution you are recovering by noting how much water is in the tank. Normally after an hours use the tank will have gone down by an inch or 2 but this depends on the type of carpet. I also find the using the CFR hand tools the tank goes down quicker than when carpet cleaning but maybe thats my technique. I once had a fellow cc help me out with a carpet job, after 30 mins the tank was half empty because he was not used to the wand and was not holding it with the head flat to the carpet.
I think in general, technique with any wand makes a lot of difference. I would love to know how much water my machine gets though but because it recycles I dont know.

I would like to see a comparison of dirt removed with this wand against others.

Mark.

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

Hi Mark,

I am new to these forums, I have always shown great interest in CFR systems, how long does it take for the recycled water to get dirty? and how often do you have to clean the filters?

Paul R

[Mark Roberts]

In use the CFR solution level needs checking and topping up if necessary every half an hour with fresh water.It depends on the carpet and your technique, on the 3rd-5th top up CFR recommend emptying and refilling the machine.
The solution recovered is diluted 5000:1 in the tank. It is possible to clean 200 plus metres of heavily soiled carpet before dumping and refilling. The machine will shut down if the water is to dirty to recycle. In the domestic environment I can easily clean a suite and then the carpets in a 3-5 bedroom house without emptying the machine.
When finished I empty and rinse the equipment prior to moving on to the next job which takes a couple of mins, its real easy. These filters must be kept clean for the machine to work, this caught me out when I first started using it.
Mark.