[cml]

It sadens me when you think you can trust someone to do a simple task like show up for work not only on time but on the day scheduled to do works where they have the used of a company vehicle.  Whilst we do post check works in some cases this may not be on the same day works are scheduled. 

I would like some comments on Vehicle Tracking systems and how cost effective they are?  Any recommendations?

[julia]

Hi
Do you have problems with staff leaving earlier from their clients? 

I worked with one of my staff this week and her time keeping is terrible.  I clocked the time we went in and then she said 20 minutes before we were due to leave come on we should be out of here in 5 mins which actually should have been 20 mins, there is usually 2 staff working in this house so if they both had left 20 mins early this would have been 40 mins in total that I have charged my client for and they are not working.  We obviously didnt leave early but my cleaner was adament that she was right with her time keeping, this makes me think this happens all the time.

How can this be sorted out?  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Julia

[J. Deans]

Register some cheap mobile phones to yourself and have them tracked before giving them to your staff. You may have to alter their employment contract and tell them that during working hours they must have the mobiles with them so they can be tracked.
I can't remember exactly how to do it, but I looked into it about 2 years ago. I think there was a yearly charge of about £50 for the first phone and about £10 for each additional phone on the account.

I have just found this Pay as you Go tracking site. They say the startup fee is £14.99 for unlimited mobiles and you are deducted for each tracking request. But there are some 'hidden' charges such as compulsory confirmation texts and zooming in on the map costs more etc.

http://www.followus.co.uk/homeusers.html

You should also be aware that you cannot track a mobile in secret. They send 18 texts per year to each mobile to alert them that they are being tracked - and you pay for the texts!

[Bertie Boo]

Hi
Do you have problems with staff leaving earlier from their clients? 

I worked with one of my staff this week and her time keeping is terrible.  I clocked the time we went in and then she said 20 minutes before we were due to leave come on we should be out of here in 5 mins which actually should have been 20 mins, there is usually 2 staff working in this house so if they both had left 20 mins early this would have been 40 mins in total that I have charged my client for and they are not working.  We obviously didnt leave early but my cleaner was adament that she was right with her time keeping, this makes me think this happens all the time.

How can this be sorted out?  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Julia

Julia

It depends on how you are charging really, whether its by the hour or by the job. The debate for which you choose rages on, but generally it is said that the prefered way to charge is 'by the job'. This way the measure of the work done is by the quality of the cleaning and not by the time spent on-site. At the end of the day we can all work quickly and we can all work slowly. Being on-site when the work is finished is a bit futile BUT then again if you are charging by the hour then i can see why you'd want the staff to be physically present.

When i hire workspeople (regardless of what the service is, although obviously i dont have a cleaner!) i do not agree to an hourly rate. I ask for a fixed-price and then its up to them how long they take. I am not bothered about the time spent, i am bothered about them showing up and doing a good job.

The other thing i wanted to mention -and this is a tad controversial i know- but this cleaner you talk of who left early, did they do a good job? Was all the cleaning carried out correctly and effectively? If so, i need to ask is it absolutly neccesary to bring this time-spent-at-a-house issue to her attention? I ask this because if the clients aren't complaining (yet), then really there isn't a massive problem, unless of course you could be in trouble legally for charging for a set number of 'hours' but not actually offering such.

It is also worthwhile considering how much this cleaner is worth to you because as we all know cleaning doesnt pay well (if you are the staff that is) and there is plenty of work around. You do run the risk of loosing your staff if you are too heavy handed, and (and this is not a dig at you, afterall i don't know you) what i've seen cleaners put up with is disgusting considering what they are paid. It is a vicious circle, we can't afford to pay our staff huge amounts of money, but then we can't exactly expect them to exert themselves or take the job as seriously as we do for what they are being paid. Its a sad situation.

Stephen

[drivewasher]

If you got a cheapo mobie register it for tracking, then set the tones for ring and messages to silent. Just put the phone under the seat in the van, after all it is your van.
You gotta fight fire with fire!

[Mrs Nicholls]

http://www.locatemobiles.com/

i found this, anyone think anything of it?

[need a cleaner]

Try this1 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150165481814&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005  if the cleaner is using the company car you just put it in and at the end of the day/week just check the log, it will even tell you if he/she is a good driver and if the car is only used for company business

[julia]

Hi All

Thank you for all your answers.  I am still thinking about what I need to do, but it is mainly down to trust and I do usually trust all my staff. 
Thanks

[lea_kay]

not sure if you already know this one but you cannot track someone unless you inform them that they are being tracked and also if you use this evidence as a disiplinary procedure it will not stand up in a court of law-
That said if you inform your employees that the cars are being tracked and you produce weekly reports this should be a big enough deterrent for them so the cheap mobiles may work out to be cost effective.
hope this helps

[steve doyle]

Im a skin flint so i would be tempted to tell the staff im going to fit trackers in a week or so then  fit little plastic boxes to the vehicles and just get a mate to follow one vehicle for a morning, record where and when etc and then just inform your staff they are active and as an example i can see that the route taken by joan today was.................. Arriving at... oclock, then going to .......... via ........ arriving at.....


Its the threat of being of being tracked that has the required effect, not the tracking (unless your doing time and motion etc).    mi5 me lol

just an idea for if you dont want to spend any cash.

[Bertie Boo]

.....and you guys are paying your staff how much per hour....? i have to say the comments here would send me running long and far if they had come from any boss of mine. In the past I've left poorly paid jobs for reasons less than this....there is no shortage of work out there for anyone who doesnt mind earning less than £7 an hour, dont ya' know?....I've heard it time and again - it is VERY expensive to recruite and train new staff, always better to work with what you have (so one of my managers once said) than it is to pi$$ your existing staff off. Mind you, i didnt meet many managers like her, she was a diamond.

Stephen

[Bertie Boo]

I know what i would do if i was a cleaner and i'd been told i was being tracked.......and i wouldnt feel threatened either, that i will say.

Stephen

[steve doyle]

Im not saying they should feel threatend.

My point was that if you have to inform staff there is a tracker fitted which will monitor the time of arrival and departure from jobs the act of the tracking isnt going to make them do their jobs, its the thought of being caught not doing their jobs that will.

At the end of the day plenty of staff work under cctv or with timecards and this is no different, its just how it is communicated to the staff.

This thread was started as a result of staff not complying with their employers wishes and being un trustworthy,  both of these actions have a detrimental effect on your business and so if those staff who are abusing their positions would decide to leave as a result of trackers being fitted or another form of monitering then all well and good.

If they are un trustworthy/ dont do the job they are paid for and choose to leave then i would say its a good result. they are not the staff you want.

And yes, its worth working with what you have rather than recruiting new , assuming of course they are worth having! I for one in my past career's have had no qualms about getting rid of people who wont do the job they are paid for, especially on issues relating to honesty, effort, attitude, time keeping etc. I have had several people who thought they were indespensible alittle suprised when getting the bullet, they were easily replaced!

[cml]

Thanks guys for your comments.   

The point here is one of trust and most people wanting something for little or nothing.  This week I was speaking with an applicant about a vacancy and  I was told that he works  for another firm and has the use of a company vehicle.  He told me straight...... that he would use this vehicle to do our jobs as this was his only mode of transport.  Hitting the point exactly and yes a definante refusal for this job because in that short sentence he indicates that he cannot be trusted to carryout his employers instructions.  Knowing the company he works for there is no way they would allow him to use their vans for his own personal gain or use.  We want no part of it.  So it leaves me with the thought as to whether our staff are doing the same and reinforces my belief that some form of monitoring device is needed.

 

[Bertie Boo]

Thanks guys for your comments.   

The point here is one of trust and most people wanting something for little or nothing.  This week I was speaking with an applicant about a vacancy and  I was told that he works  for another firm and has the use of a company vehicle.  He told me straight...... that he would use this vehicle to do our jobs as this was his only mode of transport.  Hitting the point exactly and yes a definante refusal for this job because in that short sentence he indicates that he cannot be trusted to carryout his employers instructions.  Knowing the company he works for there is no way they would allow him to use their vans for his own personal gain or use.  We want no part of it.  So it leaves me with the thought as to whether our staff are doing the same and reinforces my belief that some form of monitoring device is needed.

 

Well i wish you well, you clearly have a lot on your plate at the moment.

Stephen

[northstar]

Just on a technical point regarding the tracking - the mobile phone method (GSM tracking) is ok but only accurate to a radius of about 500 metres. It is also "real time tracking" and does not log times and locations.

I would use a GPS tracker logger. Rather than real time tracking that you have to watch there and then, you can download the data from a logger and get a full picture of what is happening.

Fit one to all your vans and tell your staff they are there. (For their protection as well in case a customer says they have not been on a job when they have)

[Robert Parry]

For those of you who employ lone staff on various sites, under the lone worker regs, you have to monitor them as part of H & S.

If you want to monitor them because of other issues, then try:

www.mitcsoftware.com
www.ezi-tracker.co.uk

As long as everyone is on the system, you should have no problems with the legalities, all you do with any system like this is explain to all staff members that the system is in place because of H & S or to help you keep control of payroll costs.

Regards,

Rob

[chosker]

we use ezi-tracker but it can be pricey depending on how many clients are on it. We just re-charge the clients for it though.
Very good system although goes down every now and then

[capricorn]

Julia
if you are charging an hourly rate the cleaner should be there for that time. there is always something that needs doing to make up the time, if you are offering an hourly rate and you have told the customer that the cleaner is booked out to them for that time, then they should be there for that time. regardless what you pay your cleaner,(hopefully it isnt too low) they knew what their wages would be when you took them on, and what would be expected of them. i normally tell my staff that the customer is paying for them to be there for x amount of time, we know that at certain times of year we sometimes turn a blind eye.when it is expectionally busy.
i would point out to the cleaners that the customer could come home early or may have a neighbour watching what time they are in and out. and that if you receive a complaint in any form then you have to take that cleaner of the job and put someone else in. so it is in their interest to stay and do a good job,or they lose it.

[julia]

Hi

Thank you for all your help and advise. 
I have decided not to fit trackers as they staff I have got are all very good and very hard working.  I  treat my staff as people and not numbers so telling them I would be tracking their movements would be like a slap on the face. 
I have instead attached a letter to this months pay slips saying that clients are paying for x amount of hours and that the cleaners must stay in the property for this time. 
I have also said that if any complaints are received about staff leaving early, they I would investigate this and then reduce their pay accordingly and invoice the client accordingly.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that this works, as I had another complaint about time keeping last weekend and it was only 10 minutes but for the client this matters as they are paying.
Thank you all once again.
Julia