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macmac

Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2007, 10:49:15 pm »
I have the 44ft carbon facelift, great pole. I only use it once a month at full length & to be honest thats enough for me. Superb pole at 34ft, even better 24ft & below but 60ft!!! NO WAY

The new super-lite 2 is my recomendation for 40ft+
Using the facelift at 44ft was a doddle to start with as i'd been using a 40ft glass exel pole before that so it was like a feather compared. I don't like the idea of modular to be honest but even i'm coming round to the fact that the benefit of weight & rigidity of these poles at 40ft+ can't be ignored.

Before anybody says owt, yes, i know, fire away ;D

tony

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 05:00:47 pm »
Quote
I believe no other carbon tube is stronger than the Cobra profiles.

thickness for thickness the Super-lite 2 will be stronger. Don't get me wrong I like some of your products ( have prolong - really good strong and stiff pole ) but 60ft telescopic carbon fibre poles are so expensive and heavy I prefer modular ( super-Lite 2 ). I think they do have there place though and that is with people working on a wage for a cleaning company with no options about what tools they will be using. And no doubt they are robust and strong and even rigid but I don' think that justifies the weight of these poles. Myself......I think a Super-lite 2 is the best option above 25-30ft, its strong, stiff and super light!! Luke
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2007, 05:39:42 pm »

5) Convenience-telescopic poles are the most convenient poles to use and avoid flapping water tubes on the outside of modular poles, which can become snag hazards.
Hope this is food for thought, regards Sean

Hi Sean,

Whilst I admire many of your excellent products we really do not see 'eye to eye' when it to comes to actually working with poles. In my mind (and my back and arms) there is nothing 'Convenient' in a pole with 8-12ft sections as are most of the telescopic poles in this category.


Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2007, 05:42:59 pm »
Sean, sorry to sound rude ( don't take this the wrong way ), but are you a wfp window cleaner or a sales man? Luke
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

Davew

Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2007, 06:12:06 pm »
The first bullet point on your remarks Sean has to be weight surely? That point seems to be missing from your paragraph. Up untill now it's either been heavy weight but indestructable or lightweight and extremely fragile. Other manufacturers are trying very hard to close this gap and so far Gardiners Superlight seems to be the best offering out there. I think Brodex will have to follow suit as lightness has to be the way forward.

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 06:29:04 pm »
 :)
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 08:35:45 pm »
Quote
It is important that before you part with hard earned cash, you know who you are dealing with and what you will get for your money with regard to after sales service, for example, do you want some one to answer a phone when you call them.? More food for thought..?

Alex is highly regarded as a good source of information, he is regularly on the forum so getting in touch is easy. The after sales service is second to none ( Brodex is very good too ). We know what were dealing with much better with Alex because it is a smaller company with a personal face. Many people come onto the forum and congratulate Gardiners on their service. A am a Super-lite 2 customer and I know full well about the warranty. Replacement parts are cheap for the Super-lite 2 with sections just over £50!! The xtel glass fibre range is so cheap we could do without a warranty!!! Luke
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

Davew

Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2007, 08:37:58 pm »
Sean with respect the thread was not about which supplier is best, it was about using a pole at sixty feet. I'm sure the presence of a phone operator would make little difference to my choice of pole. I just want the best tool for the job. Sounds to me like Brodex are getting left behind here.

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2007, 08:42:16 pm »
Sean, I don't think you are displaying a very good company image here. Alex is a well regarded forum member, yes he does get sales from the forum. But his good advice and input into this market justifies that. I would have though a big company like Brodex was more keen in gaining commercial or company style customers like Antac, Luke
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2007, 09:01:47 pm »
All comments appreciated and taken on board.
Weight is an important issue, but has to go hand in hand with
durability and the level of maintenance you have to put in, to
keep your pole in sound servicable condition.
  All suppliers seem to shy away from talking about warranty on their products,
particularly composite pole suppliers. Alex has a prime interest in selling his own poles (modular) but I havent seen any reference to the warranty conditions for clients who may buy this product from his company.
  Alex does sell Xtel poles from Exel, but buys them indirectly, so margins will always be tighter, than with his own promoted product, as I sure Alex will freely admit. Exel do not supply any warranty on the Xtel range, that is left to the re-seller who modifies the poles for WFP use. Again, I havent seen any reference to supplier warranties on the Xtel anywhere.
 It is important that before you part with hard earned cash, you know who you are dealing with and what you will get for your money with regard to after sales service, for example, do you want some one to answer a phone when you call them.? More food for thought..?

Hi Sean,

I have always enjoyed our chats online and on the phone. As we have discussed in the past durability is an important issue. We currently offer a 6 month warranty (twice as long as the warranty on your Composite pole range) against 'Manufacturing Defects' on the Super-Lite pole range as mentioned in the manual that comes with them. I notice that you offer a 30 month warranty on your Prolong poles (which I have used and assessed) but this is also a 'Manufacturing Defects' warranty not a wear and tear warranty as some of your customers have thought (their mistake). To be honest, as one supplier/manufacturer to another, manufacturing defects should show up within the first 3 months of use. The likelihood of a manufacturing defect showing up after this time (or indeed being able to be legally identified as such after prolonged wear and tear) is very slim.

As stated previously above, the margins on our Super-Lite range are actually tighter than on the X-Tel range which Exel manufacture. We would make more money if we sold every customer a Carbon Fibre X-Tel instead of a Super-Lite. We do get poles both directly and indirectly from Exel and they have so far honoured all manufacturing defect claims.

As to phone answering, we set up Gardiner Pole Systems in 2005 as an Internet based WFP supply firm.  We added phone support as an extra service to our clients and also started to take orders via the phone because of client demand.  This service will no doubt be extended as time goes by. We feel that by sticking to the medium of the Internet, we are able to offer excellent value, coupled with what we feel is an unrivalled publicly accessible data-base of WFP information for the newcomer and the experienced user alike.

Most companies will not go down the route of modular poles and that is great news for us! These type of poles will not suit everyone or everyone's specific needs. I am still a great proponent of telescopic poles in the right place and still have at least 5 in my vehicle for work (also 4 Super-Lites!!).

On a totally different subject, I still think that you manufacture and install some of the best systems that also offer excellent value for money. I also like the way that your systems are installed.  Regardless of crash tested clamps, I know which one I would trust the most.


Chris A

  • Posts: 198
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2007, 10:37:57 pm »
I'm sure I got a lifetime guarantee with the carbon tec sections . I'll have to check.
Chris

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2007, 08:28:35 am »
Hi Alex, many thanks for your fair and measured response.
To clarify warranty issue, we guarantee our Prolong poles for 30 months,
which means it wont wear out within that period, ie. clamps and tubes.
Telescopic composites wear rapidly as I'm sure you are aware and hence our warranty is limited on these poles. If your warranty of 6 months covers telescopic composite poles, then that is an excellent warranty period for poles that can have a very arduous life.
  regards Sean

Hi Sean,

You need to update your latest brochure then, as it says 30 months against 'Manufacturing Defects'. A 30 month warranty  against 'wear and tear' is certainly a very good guarantee, I can see why they are popular with clients like OCS.

To clarify, our 6 month warranty is on the Super-Lite modular pole.

We do have a new composite telescopic range coming out at the end of the year which we are so confident in, that we will be offering a lifetime warranty on the clamps and somewhere between a 6-12 month warranty against manufacturing defects, and also a wear and tear warranty.

As you point out, telescopic poles do have have a very arduous life and are often given zero care by their owners. Even composite poles can last well if given some simple regular maintenance.  One of our clients is still on his original 24ft Universal pole nearly 3 years on. All he does is clean it regularly and keeps the clamps well adjusted. On the flip-side, another client sent his 24ft Universal back for repair after just 2 months as it was unusable. All I had to do was take it to pieces, clean it out, scrape the dirt off the inside of the clamps and it was like a new pole again.

steve m

  • Posts: 796
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2007, 08:51:44 am »
sorry to but in on the argument, but surely the main thing I'd be looking at is price. At the price 60ft poles cost which is the more useable at different heights?. The thread started I think saying it was used once a month, now at the prices these poles are I'd be looking to use it for my everyday use.

so.
1. how easy is it to use at 18ft

2. can you use it for ground floor windows

3. will it go in a small van

4. how much are the spares

I know everyone is going to say they are specialised poles, but to use it every 4-6 weeks, with adding on your time and normal working costs, a pole of this cost will take an age to pay for itself

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2007, 12:22:08 pm »
You cant use a telescopic 60ft pole on downsatirs windows, they are 8-12ft long!
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.

john tomkins

  • Posts: 1639
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2007, 01:28:28 pm »
You cant use a telescopic 60ft pole on downsatirs windows, they are 8-12ft long!

Of course you can....you just gotta stand back a bit ;D

need a cleaner

  • Posts: 409
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2007, 02:37:58 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2007, 02:46:50 pm »
Because the hose is outside the pole its easy to take the top section off and use it on ground floor work or higher. The top section should ideally be 3-4ft long including gooseneck . This will allow working in tight confines and also then fit on the next 5ft section or another  modular tapered pole like 21ft £59 Gangster

http://www.cheshirefishing.co.uk/shop/gangster.htm

Or a Zensorflex £18.99 18ft http://www.swiftys-fishing-tackle.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=19_21_1_7&products_id=6583

or the S2 or F16 or Unger alloy etc

steve m

  • Posts: 796
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2007, 03:57:52 pm »
well the last response ticks all te boxes. I know what I'd be buying if I wanted a long pole!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2007, 04:05:48 pm »
Many of the waterfed guys in Holand apparently use outside the pole hoses, even with telescopic- so did I, its more versatile.

Captain Scarlet

  • Posts: 3087
Re: 60ft pole help
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2007, 05:22:57 pm »
Barely nobody uses wfp on domesic in Holland, ofcourse there are a few but it is rare.
Ffenest ( est 2007 ) is a fully insured premium quality window cleaning service based at Llandderfel near Bala. All our work is guaranteed, rain or shine, year round.