[northstar]

My company insurance is with APC.
I can see no specific mention in the policy regarding the use of bleach.
Is there any reason why my cleaners should not use it if they have the COSHH etc.
What does Stephen think about this?
Regards, Mike

[Bertie Boo]

Mike

I think bleach is a super product and cheap too. I use it as i do all the work myself.

If i employed someone then bleach would be banned. It has too many implications and i wouldnt trust anyone but myself with it.

Stephen

[lea_kay]

bleach is great if you dont actually want to clean anything... bleach bleaches muck, but it doesnt clean it and if your not cleaning properly. Another company will clean it properly on your behalf!

Put all that along side the fact that more and more clients will not allow bleach to be used on their site's its much better to leave bleach on the shelf.

[Bertie Boo]

Bleach does contain a small amount of surfactant, so with elbow-grease it will remove general dirt although of course for grease and what-not it has to be cleaned with a 'proper' degreaser.

When you have things like white worktops that are stained there is practically nothing that will remove the COLOR from the stain like bleach does. Granted the stain will still be there but what else can you do?

Bleach is also useful for cleaning toilets. The problems with bleach start when you get idiots who drop it on carpets, or mix it with other chemicals, or for some inexpicable reason they drink it or leave it where it can be drunk. There are so many 'issues' with bleach that a lot of businesses and clients are banning it, and with good reason.

however, it is not sufficient to say that people using bleach are not cleaning properly - this i know for a fact is wrong as i use bleach and i'm telling ya' (!) i know how to clean....

Stephen

[GeoffDerby]

Hi Northstar, Your question begins with "Safty First" and yes you are correct there is no reason why bleach cannot be used in controlled environments where risk assessments, method statements and COSHH is provided to the end user, I cannot think of any application in a kitchen or food environment for bleech , and bleech is NOT  a food safe product, despite what Sptephen says always keep food surface and bleech seperate.  I would only use bleech in small quantities for Laundry or treating mould or mildew, but never on a food surface.

You can get msds sheets for most bleach, they will each state "Bleach is Corrosive. Causes eye and skin burns. Causes digestive tract burns. Harmful if inhaled. Causes respiratory tract irritation. May cause methemoglobinemia.

Bleach has a high concentrate of Sodium hypochlorite, which should never be mixed with Acids, (do you know what is on the surfaces you are cleaning) when bleach comes into contact with Acid, even uric acid, (Urine) Chlorine Gas is produced and is extremely harmful, also you will know that Bleach has no cleaning properties to break up surface tension, and therefore cannot get to the rout cause of the stain or soilage.

Most commercial companies have banned Bleach not for the harmful effects it may have on cleaning areas, but because of the potential the bleach has if spilled on carpets of fabrics, then you may find your insurance is invalid if training has not been carried out or the transport was not secure.

It may surprise you to lean that we banned bleach because of the dangers to staff, Chlorine and Amonia gas, also in view of the fact it has a short shelf life, maximum of 30 days after opening.

Yes bleach is cheap, but what is cheap now may cost you more in the long run.

Kind regards
Geoff

[Bertie Boo]

I like bleach 

Stephen

[Mrs Nicholls]

would you use a toilet gel instead of toilet bleach like domestos then? does no bleach mean not even toilet bleach?

[Art]

would you use a toilet gel instead of toilet bleach like domestos then?

That's all we've ever used and not had one problem or complaint.

[Bertie Boo]

Lisa

There is no reason why you cant use a toilet cleaner (asda and tesco do one which is about 30p for 750ml) instead of bleach. There are 3 main reasons i use bleach to do toilets, one being that it saves carrying around two products (if i have bleach with me i dont see the point of using a toilet cleaner). Also in domestic situations i find that most people are using bleach and not toilet cleaners so i think its probably better to use the same as what they've put down previously (goes back to the mixing chemicals thing). I also find that the strong colour in toilet cleaners can stain some loo seats and/or collect around the hinges of the seats. There is nothing wrong with loo cleaners but i choose not to use them.

I am surprised that you use Domestos as this is very expensive and i also dont like the fact that they claim it sticks around 5 times longer. I dont want ANY cleaning product to stay around, i belive it should all be cleaned away (so far is as possible). That said, like in kitchens, i think you have to way up whether the chance of a small amount of cleaning product left behind is more of a risk than all the germs and crap that you've removed as part of a cleaning process.

The more i do my job the more i realise that there is a very poor understanding and training for domestic cleaning. The H+S risks are far greater in my opinion as people have so many trip and fall hazards, electrical hazards, etc etc etc, and as well as this the lack of cleaning between visits from the cleaners is a H+S issue in its own right. When i'm out cleaning for my clients (who are all domestic these days) i work with the philosophy that what i do cannot make the situation worse, and i stick by it. I clean in what you would call an 'old fashioned way' but one that never the less works.

Stephen

[Bertie Boo]

Hi Northstar, Your question begins with "Safty First"

Not so, it begins with "Is there any reason why my cleaners should not use it if they have the COSHH etc", unless i've mis-read it?

Stephen

[J. Deans]

As we primarily do new-build cleaning, we don't use bleach.
But last week, for example, we did a 'deep-clean' to the offices, toilets and canteen on a site, ready for return to the suppliers. All we used was bleach!
The walls, ceilings and floors came up like new and of course virtually every germ is killed with bleach.
That was a one-off situation and we normally do not condone it's use at all. It is simply too dangerous and risky and is not a cleaning chemical - apart from killing germs - it simply removes colour from dirt and little else.

Here's a similar example:

Often we are told to remove gloss paint with turps or white spirit. We always refuse. If it won't come off with a scraper, a standard surface cleaner, water or simple elbow grease, it's not a cleaners job!
We tell them that thinners are not classed as cleaning chemicals, they are highly flammable and our insurance does not cover us to carry or use them.

Just think of bleach in a similar way and only use it when absolutely necessary and then use extreme caution.

[Mrs Nicholls]

i didnt say that i used it, just thought i would ask a question.

I do use it in my commercial work though as i get it in bulk at a similar low rate as the gels, and this is what the company wanted us to purchase and use as this is what htey used previously.

If the domestic customers use bleach then we use bleach otherwise we just use toilet cleaning 'clean and fresh' type gel.

Personally i cant stand the smell of bleach, far too over powering.  I saw a program a while back about bleach and that after a very short shelf life it becomes inactive, and therefore they are just selling the clean smell and the association between the smell and cleanliness we have stamped into our heads.

I'm just going by what the program was about there, so dont pounce on me if i am wrong.

[creweexcel]

we dont use bleach because one client was allergic to it , so be warned.

[Lesley J]

we dont use bleach. too risky if cleaner spills it on carpets etc.