[Mrs Nicholls]

hi

I have just had information back to me that someone has slipped on wet floor that my our staff cleaned at a commercial premises ( a medical centre ).

I know that the manager there doesnt like the usage of yellow warning signs, and i think he has hid them from staff, as they are trained to use them.

We dont supply any cleaning equipment or materials for this contract. If this person made a claim would we still be liable?

Something like this could shut us down. Very ironic but i have just updated everyone and handed out booklets about slips and trips last week,

Thanks
Lisa

[Robert Parry]

Lisa,

You already know the answer!

Its the law, tough if the manager doesnt like it, do the job out of hours, or ensure that signs are in place at all times, until the hazard is clear.

If your cleaners put the signs out, and someone else removed them, I would imagine that liability lies with them, if your staff couldnt find the signs or didnt put them out, then the liability is yours!

Different again if person who slipped, ignored the signs!

Regards,

Rob

[Cleaning Resource]

Don`t worry about it to much, thats what insurance is for it`s not gonna put you out of business

[Robert Parry]

Cant quite believe that you wrote that Gleam!!

Regards,

Rob

[Mrs Nicholls]

i cant afford sky high insurance premiums lol, the person hasn't complained, but the manager at the med centre has requested a chat with me, although i cant get hold of him now.

[dhnjj]

Hi Lisa

I strongly recommend you get some public liability insurance even though its not illegal to not have any.

You must also get some employers liability if you employ staff

Regards

Dave 

[Bertie Boo]

Robert

Can i pick you up on two points: Firstly, what did you mean by 'its the law'? I can't see what that relates to.

Secondly, the information that Gleam posted is spot on. You (or in this case Lisa) tells her insurance company IMMEDIATLY what happened, sticking to the facts (i.e. yes there were signs, no there were no signs, not saying "Oh someone might have moved them" etc etc etc ) and then all you can do is wait..........like what was said, thats precisely what the insurance is all about.

Lisa, dont assume that if someone makes a claim that your premiums will rise. Dont take this the wrong way but i have a friend like you who takes far more notice of the people around her and second-guessing what might happen instead of taking the bull by the horns and finding out from those in the know.

Get on the fone to yout insurer ASAP and let them tell you what will happen.

Good luck babe!

Stephen

[dhnjj]

Robert

Can i pick you up on two points: Firstly, what did you mean by 'its the law'? I can't see what that relates to.

Hi Stephen I think Robert meant the displaying of warning signs

Dave

[Bertie Boo]

Thats what i thought he meant and indeed hoped he didnt mean it. I would like to see 'the law' that says warning signs MUST be displayed...

Stephen

[Mrs Nicholls]

we are fully insured, for those who have asked

[Bertie Boo]

Lisa

So call them and let them do what it is that you;ve been paying for....

cheers

stephen

[dhnjj]

Under the Health & Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations 1996 any employer (bar afew) must provide warning signs in the workplace if other methods of risk prevention are unsatisfactory. So unless Lisa could cordon off the area whilst her staff clean the floor then a suitable warning sign(s) should be displayed and from reading her posts i think she provides her service during working hours so cordoning off and area wouldnt be very convenient.

Regards

we are fully insured, for those who have asked

sorry Lisa i thought you meant that you had no insurance, my bad 

[Bertie Boo]

yep, read that, but i'm looking all over for something that specifically says that a yellow sign must be put up when a floor is being mopped......as i say specifically.

The insurers should advise on this i would have thought....?


Stephen

[dhnjj]

Hi again

as i understand it, if an area cannot be cordoned off then yes a yellow safety sign should be displayed which must meet british standards

[absolutecleaning]

Isn't it the case that insurers sometimes won't pay out if you have been negligent or haven't adhered to h&s law?

Don't want to sound negative Lisa but they don't pay unless they have to.

[Cleaning Resource]

when I wrote the above post I did not mean don`t worry about using signs or people slipping over of course you should do everything properly with safety in mind, what I meant was,  that if you have done everything properly (as you appear to have done so) then as the above post says pass all the details on to your insurers and let them sort it out, they will have a far greater chance of making it all disappear than you would, at the end of the day they don`t want to pay so  they spend thousands investigating and what ave you, to ensure that their payouts are kept to a minimum.

In this case the easiest way for them to avoid paying is to argue on your side that you done everything properly and it was the medical centre that was in the wrong and therefore any claim should come from their insurers and not yours.

at the end of the day you don`t even know if there is a claim yet, I bet the manager who does not like the use a wet floor signs gets you up there and says "you should be using wet floor signs" as if it was you who did not want to use them.

anyhow don`t panic your not going out of business, your premiums won`t go up to much if at all so sit back and let the experts sort it out.

[cleanimperial]

If we use a mop bucket with a slip sign on it do we still need a yellow warning sign ? The bucket is in full view all the time so staff can see it.

Thanks Fred.

[Bertie Boo]

Isn't it the case that insurers sometimes won't pay out if you have been negligent or haven't adhered to h&s law?

Don't want to sound negative Lisa but they don't pay unless they have to.

You should stil let the insurance company know, where do u draw the line? You should never second guess what they may or may not say, you need to find out the facts.

Stephen

[Robert Parry]

Health & Safety is in actual fact real legislation, ie. it is LAW Bertie, I know from previous posts that you deal with the domestic end of the market, however, this does not excuse you from the above legislation.

The legislation is quite clear, you must do everything reasonable in order to protect you, your staff, your clients staff and members of the general public from harm within the workplace, dhnjj, is quite correct, even the signs must conform to certain standards (cleanimperial - a mop bucket, unless it conforms to these standards, will not suffice, these just serve as an extra warning!)

As part of your risk assessment, signs are one of the control measures that must be put into place in order to minimize the risks present.

Bertie is also quite right, the insurance company are the experts, but again too so is absolutecleaning, the insurance company will not pay out unless you have complied with the current and ever changing legislation.

Reading this post, has made me despair for the industry, long gone so it seems are those with real knowledge.

Lisa, try not to panic, hold your meeting with the centre manager asap, get the facts, and nothing but the facts, take statements from your staff, written all nice and neat, get a written statement from the centre manager too if possible, not forgetting any doctor present who looked at the person who slipped, file these away, just in case you need them in the future, and keep your fingers crossed.

Explain to the centre manager, that your staff are trained to adhere to the H & S legislation, and will not work if it means breaking the law, no ifs or but's. Good luck!

Regards,

Rob

[dhnjj]

If we use a mop bucket with a slip sign on it do we still need a yellow warning sign ? The bucket is in full view all the time so staff can see it.

Thanks Fred.

Hi Fred
I think the mop buckets with signs on should be treated as an addition to the measures already in place. A Black sign on a Yellow background is widely recognised as "a warning" where as a White symbol on a Green background as first aid or escape route information and White on Red - Fire etc etc.
If your colour coded then the background on your buckets could be one of several colours

If your staff are mopping a floor then surely they are moving the bucket around with them, wouldnt it be better to have static signs that are only removed when the floor is dry?  

Regards