[Jaybee]

I've been using a Numatic CTD572 for the last 4 years (don't all laugh at once,) and yeah it only cost me £600 but it's earned me a lot of money for very little outlay and maintenance costs.

Anyway I decided to step up a gear and at the same time increase my pricing (see topic titled "Is this for real" for my previous posts before I was banned again,) so I purchased a CFR 500 Perfect Heat  that was advertised on here by Denis (nice chap). I also aquired a 11" roller wand thingy and a 5" hand tool, both CFR products.

I have only used this so far for one job that was a lounge, H/S/L and a bedroom. Previously with the Numatic I had to have to take the thing upstairs to clean the landing and bedroom, I don't need to do this with the CFR but this was counteracted by the fact that the CFR is so big and heavy it is so much more difficult to get it out of my 4x4 and up 7 steps into a terraced house - especially over the fragile door rim at the bottom that every UPVC door has.

The recirculating water method is nice as I was previously having to change water every 15 mins or so, and also empty regular which involved dismantling the machine on the Numatic. However the recirculating water does actually mean that you are basically washing the carpet with dirty water - no amount of filtration will over come this - you are taking dirt out of the heavy traffic areas and depositing it in the clean areas i.e. under sofas etc.

Leading onto the "quick drying" that is provided when you use the CFR wands. Now it is obviously common knowledge that pressure is created by resistance to flow. When you are increasing the pressure on your machine you are actually increasing the flow rate to the jets. When the water is released from the jets and in free air it is obviously no longer under pressure and therefore it's cleaning efficiency can only be measured by its velocity and its mass per droplet. As the CFR machines "atomise" the water into a very fine spray this creates a massive deceleration of the droplets before they hit the carpet as they have little mass and therefore little kinetic energy. This is why they do not penetrate the carpet very well which is great if you are a looking for fast drying times but not so great if you are wanting cleaning efficiency.

These are my initial impressions after one single job, I will add more comments as I become more experienced with the machine.

[Ian Rochester]

Did you not think about these aspects before buying the CFR, you would see haw big it was and should have understood it's radical cleaning method.

A little bit of homework can save a lot of expense and disappointment

[absolutecleaning]

i got mine through yesterday and am pretty pleased with it having done just our own lounge at home.

reading your above text has worried me a bit though - is there any point having a high pressure pump and it not leaving the wand at high velocity - answers on a postcard please

[carpetguy]

You should be able to avoid the door edge problems by getting more hose that machine will operate at 75 - 100 feet from the machine.

[Joe H]

Jaybee
I too started with a a Pneumatic CTD572 some 16 years ago and still have it and it still sprays and sucks. Funnily - it cost me about £600 all those years ago if I remember.
I too got a CFR500 - some 17 months ago so I can speak with freeness.

Yes its big and heavy - good job its got those extra wheels at the top so you can lie it on its back and roll it into extate car/van etc.
Getting into and out a house can be done the same way - lie it on its back with the top wheels inside the house, lift up the bottom and roll it in - just as if your loading in the van.
Sometimes I put a towel over the upvc door frame if I think some protection is needed.
No big problem.

Sometimes, like yesterday for example - I leave the machine outside. I did 3 bedrooms in a "normal" sized semi, and knowing I would have to use extension hoses (25' going to 50') I left the machine outside. It was a nice day so no electrical/rain problems, the hallway was vey small, and outside there would be better air flow around the machine - oh! and it was less noisy too!!

I understand what you are saying about the pressure and the spray etc - but believe me IT DOES DO A DEEP CLEAN.
I never cease to be amazed at the amount of dirt that is released, and thats after a good pre vac with a Sebo and agitation with an Envirodri to get rid of the loose bits. Not all carpets are that bad thankfully.

Just finished four day lounges in a care home - each exactly the same shape/size and about 50 maybe 60 sq yds.
You know how it is in care homes, the residents sit in a U shape watching TV all day and, just like us at home (or is it just me!), tea and food gets dropped and trod into the carpets - well this was bad, bad in all four lounges.
Did each lounge in 3 hours including fresh set up each time.
I did drop all the water in the tank a few times (because it really was bad) and refill but if I did not have the CFR with its recycling than I reckon I would have taken at least another hour per lounge, at least.

However, a lot of houses are not any where near as bad, and the water does not get too dirty so the recycling issue is not a big thing (in my opinion). But you could always start cleaning the "clean areas" first, knowing they are "clean" - some may say why clean whats never seen the daylight anyway!
Doing clean areas first gets the solution circulating in the pipes and allows the heater to get going as well - and what a great heater it is.

And yes the carpets are left reasonably dry - I get customers to touch the carpet when I have finished AT THE LAST AREA I HAVE DONE and they are amazed at the lack of wetness - "not what it was like with the previous carpet cleaner".

Thats what I like happy customers!! 

Keep going with it, you will get used to it, and those CFR tools are pretty good as well.

If you need more reassurance - keep in touch.

Joe H
I like happy customers 

 

[Jaybee]

Did you not think about these aspects before buying the CFR, you would see haw big it was and should have understood it's radical cleaning method.

A little bit of homework can save a lot of expense and disappointment

Who says I am disappointed?

[Steve Chapman]

A question about the cfr,
 
if it re-circulates the same water, does the bad odours in things like urine get re- circulated into the carpet aswell, as it must be impossible to filter out this contamination?


just a thought?

regards
steve

[Fresh Clean]

no, the tiny fraction of urine or anyother stain is diluted to such a degree, its like 1 particle in a million, plus the system is m/s, it does as it says. the more water you use in your tank the better, i fill my machine up to 15gls, for a better clean. cleaned a pub carpet today that had'nt been cleaned in years, used enzo soil one, intank at 425mls to 15gls & pre-spray 48mls to 3ltrs plus added the defoam, 100mls. because the carpet was altra greasey, half way through emptied half the tank & refilled. i am still amazed how good the system is. freshi 

[Fresh Clean]

filteration system, you have a filter in the wand, a filter over your pump inlet, a drum filter that covers your pump filter & t-bar "the t-bar has 2 jets each end that spins round very fast" plus 2 filters under you main hose intake. hope this helps doc

[lands]

Freshi sleeps with his CFR, it's like a comfort blanket to him.

[Fresh Clean]

yep, it does'nt answer back & it never says no!!!!! them bonnets were black!

[lands]

Rotten mate, came out very clear on the pics you sent me.

Need to speak to you about thetre. have left you msg

[mark_roberts]

You really need proper instruction with this system from Amtech as its not a normal machine.  Yes I did own one.

Mark

[Jaybee]

You really need proper instruction with this system from Amtech as its not a normal machine. 

Why?

[Jaybee]

no, the tiny fraction of urine or anyother stain is diluted to such a degree, its like 1 particle in a million,

Based on what research exactly? Stop quoting random made up facts. 1 part in a million, you just pulled a figure out of your head. If I dilluted Polonium 210 to 1 part in a million would you then drink it?

[carpetguy]

You will find with a little more experience the CFR system will give a very deep clean bearing in mind two points in particular. Prespray aggitate rinse is how to get the maximum from any HWE system and you can dwell, or make multi passes on heavily soiled areas without fear of overwetting with a CFR.
If you look for negative aspects of anything in life you will find them, to consider a recycling method to be " depositing " soiled water on clean areas is inaccurate and having identified a particularly dirty area common sense would tell you to leave that area till last.
You will get fantastic results from the system and it will earn you much more than previously 
                               

[Joe H]

This thread seems to have dwelled at the moment on the fact the CFR500 recirculates its cleaning water and that means any nasty pulled up gets recirculated, albeit in a diluted form.

Is any one out there suggesting that other systems, be it TM or portable actually extracts everything out of the carpet - everything!!!!

Do not all machines leave the carpets damp (or even wet in some cases).
What excactly is in that dampness???  Is it just clean water???
or could it be whatever was in the carpet that has not been fully extracted??
also, can anyone guarantee that they have covered every single square inch of a carpet??

Lifes a compromise.

Obviously not everone likes the principle of how a CFR machine works, just like many TM operators wont go back to portys and maybe porty owners dont want to go the TM way for whatever reasons.

The CFR500 suits me at this moment in time, and it is my opinion it will suit many other carpet cleaners too (but not all).

[Fresh Clean]

jaybee, i am no plucking numbers out of the air, i have been trained by amtech to use this system & i have covered these issues that you have raised, but not in a negative way like you!! if you want more info about the system, wwwamtechuk.biz or cfrcorps.com or perfect-heat.com, i'm sure that these sites will address your issues with the cfr system, they back up there claims not with random figures, but with tried & tested reports. 

[Fresh Clean]

polonium i would not drink, but do you drink tap water, do you know whats in it? smart arse! you forget that cfr solutions are safe & environmentally friendly. quote; "many chemicals used to clean carpets contain volatile organic compounds, chemicals can provoke even worse allergic reactions for weeks after cleaning. the solvent-free cfr system is formulated to remove more soil than conventional carpet cleaning solutions & promote a safe, healthy, & productive environment" & "the cfr chemical system is scientifically formulated for optimal performance with the cfr recycling workstation"  jaybee i strongly recommend that you try to get some formal training regarding this cleaning process & then you will learn from this how its formulations work. quotes were taken from the cfr 106 brocure, so you know that  i'm not making it up.     freshi 

[Joe H]

Whoops!

and I was told that Clean It Up forum was a nice friendly place!!

seconds oout - round 3  (or is it round 4)