[Samuel]

Art,

1 Bedroom flat deep clean consists of:

Kitchen: Remove carbon build up in oven cavity. Deep clean oven and hob.
De-grease and clean cooker hood. Clean all base and wall units inside and out. Clean and shine polish kitchen tiles. Clean and shine polish sink, drainer and taps. Damp mop floor.

Bathroom: Acid wash toilet. Clean and shine polish all sanitary ware, chrome fittings and the like. Clean and shine polish bathroom tiles. Clean and sanitize toilet seat, lid and surrounds. Damp mop floor.

Paintwork: Remove all dust, dirt and scuff marks from all walls, doors, door surrounds, architraves, window sills and frames.

Glass: Clean and shine polish all glazing internally and externally where accessible.

Vacuum all carpeting throughout. Remove all cobwebs and fly trappings.


The kitchen and bathroom are usually the worst rooms to tackle and so I deal with these first by applying the necessary chemicals and letting them do the work. A 1 bedroom flat in 5 hours is easily achieved without cutting corners and still doing a first rate job.... I work for three letting agencies and they sing my praises.

[Paul-T]

Robert

Companies spend thousands because they are at that level where they do indeed need to be covered for all kinds of disasters. Their responsibilities differ vastly from those of a much smaller firm just starting out.

I haven't disputed the need or the expertise, but I merely refer to those simply just starting out that there is no need to spend out.....that is why the government issue much of the information for free. As a company/business grows I would recommend, as you have done, going on courses, when a cleaning company approaches a major organisation then obviously H & S/COSHH (etc.) certificates will be needed more so than ever. It is also a matter of choice, someone new within the cleaning industry having spare cash would do well to invest to get the training but, dare I say, not many people have that kind of money to begin with.......that is why I have expressed the attitude that I have.

Breaking health and safety regulations and receiving a fine does not depend on whether one has a certificate or not - it simply means you have not followed the rules laid out.

Some  insurance companies may request you have valid H & S certificates, others do not request that......if they all requested that information then many here would not be insured.

I agree with you, Robert, I personally would advise anyone seeking a Health and Safety policy not to rely what is found or offered here. There are policies out there and also information regarding this can be obtained for free (again!) from the government websites.

You are correct legislation, regarding H & S and COSHH, are extremely clear and actually easy to understand but it does not state that anyone operating a company have to be certified in order to give the training. Many here would benefit from studying the legislation as I do believe some are not that knowledgeable - that is where the danger is and not with those not being certified as H & S/COSHH trained.

Again, Robert, I do agree that some do think that entering the cleaning industry is an easy option of making money - and there is money to be made (I know that from my own experiences) but I fear some don't do enough research to prepare for what is expected of them whether that be legislation or simply common business sense.

I have to chuckle, again you are absolutely right, things are becoming far to draconian and everything seems to be working against the industry than for it.....some of our thoughts clearly are the same!

Here! here! We all should take it seriously but we must also help those just starting out - some here don't offer enough help when they have that experience whilst others offer too much help. I know that may seem strange to some but the important part of setting up a business is not always about rewards, expect a bit of rough and tumble....expect to lose money as well as contracts but the hand holding really has to end.

My advice to some is to stop relying on others too much - research and start asking further afield since the help is there and that information found can be far more rewarding than what is (sometimes) offered here.

[Art]

Thanks for the reply. Maybe we're being to particular as an oven can take anything up to 2 hours on it's own.

Is there much competition down your way?

Arthur

[Samuel]

Yes Art, I'm afraid so... Never the less there is plenty of work to go around.
You may know Martin 606 who posts on this forum quite regularly. I met Martin about three months ago when I invited him over for a carpet cleaning demo. Martin will, I'm sure, concur with me about all the facts and figures that I posted regarding post tenancy cleans as he is also very prominant in this line of work. In fact, he might say I'm too cheap!

Common way cleans are an absolute boon  as well. I now have 5 main contracts, average plot being 46 flats. Using the number of flats as a multiplier you can command good money. I've never lost out on a tender that I have bid for. Example: 46 flats x £2:20 each = £101.20 per visit which is equivalent to £438 per calendar month. This would take me about 4 hours per visit doing a thorough job and work out at a cost of £25:25 per hour!

Samuel

[Art]

I never doubted your prices and yes i know Martin earns high hourly rates.

The rates down there wouldn't be possible around here  as there's far to many companies that clean for peanuts. Might have to relocate to Brighton 

The communal areas is something we do aswell and if you think back, i was one of the people that advised you on pricing 

[Samuel]

Now that you mention it Art, yes I do remember and for that I'm very grateful.
It's amazing in just 8 months what anyone can achieve. Back in January I barely had any work. Martin came along with me to a new acquisition called OCEANIQUE in Rustington to give me a carpet cleaning demo. I had tendered for that job when it was still flat ground! If you google it theres a lot of info on this prestigious block. Since then, I have gained two more. These are from block managers that I contacted a year ago... So it just goes to show that patience is a virtue!

Google: Oceanique, Rustington.

And thank you Art.

[trudi]

Hi Guys
Just thought I would let you lot know what I do for EOT cleans.  I have 7 letting/estate agents on my books and each of them never asks how much prior to a clean - strange as it seems, on introduction I gave each company an indication of how much certain types of properties would cost but more importantley emphaised the fact that they would receive a 1st class guaranteed service. Our rates work out at at least £40.00 per hour for two cleaners. There is alot of money to be made from EOT cleans but it does appear to vary an enourmous amount as to how much you charge, depending on the area you are covering.  All of our lettings agents have commented on how good their properties look and keep coming back.  What you also have to remember is that the letting agents arn't the ones paying for the cleans we do - its the tenant and generally comes out of their deposit. Good times! Trudi

[Bertie Boo]

Hi all

Well this has been a healthy debate if nowt else. Paul I accept your apologise and I apologise too if what I wrote was put in such a way that it could be misunderstood.

What I meant about using clients materials was meant as a "what if you charge by the hour and are supposed to go hunting for all that you need in that time"? It was the £8.50 per hour that threw me as I didn't see how -for that figure- materials and equipment could possibly be included.

I am not 'new' to this at all, but as I work alone I am of course very limited to the areas in which I have worked. Mainly I do domestic cleaning, although 2 years ago I was cleaning an office unit 5 nights a week for an ex-employer of mine. Nice place, small company, again I worked alone, although I gave it up when I had enough domestic work in the daytime. To a point I was a bit spoilt there because they never asked for a risk assessment off me, nor any health and safety info  etc, to be honest they (and indeed most all of the companies I have done work for) are not overly bothered by H+S (or lack thereof) which is quite a worry, but my point here is that I never quite got around to finding out what I am supposed to do re:H+S statements etc.

Anyway, the only things I left on-site were the equipment, the electrical items were PAT tested and the cleaning products removed and taken home with me each evening. I take the H+S very seriously and I work carefully.

The guy who was responsible for my being there was somewhat 'surprised' at my refusal to give an hourly rate for the work, I said that I always and only ever quote for the job. At the end of the day he wanted ME to do the work (I think having -seemingly- used every other cleaning company in the district in 12 month blocks...)  and we agreed a price-per-visit and he left it to me to make sure that the cleaning was done in rotation over the 5 evenings per week.

The other businesses I have worked for have all been one-off jobs, the last time being an office that had just been acquired by the company in the adjoining building. They were desperate to get it cleaned through, having waited in vain for their regular cleaning company to get back to them with a price, and by the time I was called to have a look it was a case of "How much do you want and when can you come?". Suffice to say I go that job  

I was one of those people who started up with no more than a small collection of cleaning equipment and public liability insurance. I never doubted it would be hard work but I was desperate to become self-employed in order to fulfil some other things in my life that were on-hold due to a 9-5 job and as I love cleaning it was the quickest and most appropriate way for me to get going. Once I realised once and for all that I was not going to expand and was happy working alone I was more sure of where I was going, and my long term plans are to use my cleaning and other work experiences to go into NVQ training (in cleaning).

I too firmly believe that there is not enough training, respect, and understanding of the cleaning industry, but at the same time I don't have any useful answers either (not when wages have to be low in order to make a profit...) which I suppose is another reason why I work on my own. For what I'd be able to pay my staff I would be ashamed to do so, especially with what they would have to do in the job. I consider myself lucky that all of my clients are regulars -the most irregular being every 4 weeks- so the work is straight-forward because its domestic work and because I've gradually knocked them into shape. Unfortunately it doesn't pay as well as one-off work, although I have been told here that I don't charge enough (which confuses me as I know very well what the local competition is charging and I'm very near to it, indeed charge more than some other organisations do) but then I don't have to advertise or hope that work comes in.

It is interesting what you said about some companies wanting explicit breakdowns of the cleaning quotes - how common is this and do they apply the same to other (non cleaning) contractors?

Cheers

Stephen

[Art]

Now that you mention it Art, yes I do remember and for that I'm very grateful.
It's amazing in just 8 months what anyone can achieve. Back in January I barely had any work. Martin came along with me to a new acquisition called OCEANIQUE in Rustington to give me a carpet cleaning demo. I had tendered for that job when it was still flat ground! If you google it theres a lot of info on this prestigious block. Since then, I have gained two more. These are from block managers that I contacted a year ago... So it just goes to show that patience is a virtue!

Google: Oceanique, Rustington.

And thank you Art.

Glad the works coming in for you mate

Arthur

[Paul-T]

Stephen

I understand your comments about what someone was willing to charge per the hour. I have to admit (unless I am absolutely sure) will avoid mentioning what someone should charge. I feel strongly about this since if someone is already working with clients then they should know what their costings are, so I refrain from discussing it. If though it is wrong then that is a mistake they must learn on their own. I know it sounds tough/harsh but we must learn through experiences - if we always advise others on what they should be charging then not only will they not learn but they could then point an excusing finger if things go wrong. Sometimes its better to take a step back and let them proceed..........

I'm glad that you have written what you have - I think it is helpful to understand that no matter how important something is there will be those that are not that bothered, I refer to your comments about the H & S.

I take this issue very seriously -  but it is only relevant when those rules are broken - I hope some here understand what I mean by that. Learn the H & S, even if it appears those higher up seem not to acknowledge them since it'll be your down fall and not theirs when things go wrong. Even in the smallest of businesses, you can teach yourself H & S, COSHH, Risk Assessments, Method Statements - all of which *are* necessary but there is no excuse for not learning them.....and eventually getting the training in order to gain certification.

Like yourself, Stephen, I've had opportunities in working with some not so small cleaning companies and considering these were companies that have been around for a good few years it was shocking to learn how they did not care about H & S....COSHH and lone working - all the while claiming (though true) they were registered with this, that and everything else...including BiCS trained!!

Worrying isn't it!?

Honestly Stephen, its hard working getting everything together but its not difficult to understand. As hopefully you're finding out. In fact just as a matter worth thinking - many, including the 'big boys' seem to think that having a file with all the necessary stuff is enough, in fact, many do not realise that by law you must also have a H & S poster...or was it COSHH?........in view where this stuff is kept, which is normally the cleaning cupboard. Not many people know that part of the law!!

I also wonder if that part features in the BiCS training?

I wish you the best of luck with your NVQ training - I would like to point out here that I do find training important in every aspect but experience must come first (in my opinion) and gradually when it is more affordable take up the courses on offer. I do urge caution to everyone reading this to be careful of the courses operated by the Chamber of Commerce - check them out beforehand, even though they are often free it is not good to ever get bad advice, sadly it appears the trainers on these are often failed business people that don't even know about TUPE law and may even think it does not apply to you....................it does!!

Stephen, you clearly have checked out competition and you know what you need in order to pay out all the necessaries and still make a profit. Sometimes you will discover that your charges were far too low or worse find that you're not earning anything - tough- part of the cleaning industry, but amazingly sometimes you'll find you're on a real winner when someone is paying way over the odds and you're raking it in from one contract - just a few words, if that ever does happen to you just make sure you do a darn good job and give them no reason to look into the cost of the cleaning unless absolutely necessary!

Many of today's companies will request a break down of ALL charges - the term is transparency -  anyone putting in a tender via facilities management will be faced with the same requests - that is why I stressed what I did previously - if a cleaning company has an attitude, when invited to tender for a company, about allowing others to have this information just remember that they will always be bigger than you and your tender will simply be shredded.

I will also add that companies (major) will always request the same information such as H & S certificates and COSHH etc - this is also seen when sub-contractors have access to their properties.

Robert certainly had a great word for it - draconian!

[Bertie Boo]

paul

WRT the training, so far i've completed NVQ levels 1+2, infection control 1+2 and BICs stage one, although i had to pay for the BICs course (which was not cheap) so i dont think i will be doing another just yet. Although BICs courses may touch upon the basics of COSHH, this as i recall is not part of the course - basically there are approxomatly 40 different cleaning 'skills' that are taught, on each course 10 are selected for the candidate. These can be done externally (like i did, through a college) or the company can have its own internal BICs person who will be moderated by BICs once a year...in the latter case i suppose the training given to staff will only be as good as the person giving it...

The college i did the courses at is very big and the staff in cleaning science all have a minimum of 10 years in the 'industry' prior to being in training, but i know what you mean about the possibility of trainers who have no experience.

A good friend of mine is an NVQ assesor (he'd previously spent quite a while -and longer than he'd planned lol- being a caretaker whilst 'between jobs' and got into training about 6 years back) and its the route i'd like to go down. I am looking now for vacancies BUT a lot of them say they give preference to someone who already has the A1 assesors qualification, which of course i dont have yet and can't get until i get a job in training where they are willing to put me on the A1 course...its a bit of a viscious circle really. My friend was very lucky when he got his job as the college was quite willing to train anyone who they thought was suiteable for the training role.

cheers

Stephen

[Paul-T]

Stephen

As you say, the BiCS courses certainly aren't cheap.

I know some of the methods that BiCS prefer to teach - an industry standard - like putting a bog seat/cover down before flushing it! WHAT!?

Can those at BiCS possibly give a genuine reason for a toilet seat having to be down before flushing?

Before anyone decides to respond, I already know the answer - splash back. So, given the reason, why do we not have an automated flush systems where a toilet will only flush when the entire seat is down? Do we worry when we visit a public toilet? Do we worry when our children are in school sharing toilets and flushing while the seat and cover are still up? So, what are the true risks of catching something from a splash back...............zilch.....unless a cleaner is going to be on their hands and knees with their heading almost touching the bottom of the basin. So why this silly little rule?

If there truly was a risk to health then I think we would see more of a response from local authorities and schools to protect not only members of the public but young people as well.

The above is an example as to why I find some of these industry methods a little on the ridiculous side. I understand the reasons for having H & S rules and regulations but please..........

Okay....I'll remove myself from the soap box.....for a while 

Good luck with furthering your career within the industry.

[letzclean]

thank you all for your comments, opinions and suggestions, meeting got postponed untill tommorow had a heavy weekend as you do! I appreciate you giving your time. Happy Cleaning


LC

[Bertie Boo]

....erm ok paul

I did find the BICs training to be on the basic side, although that is not a complaint as i knew what to expect having spoking at length before hand to the head of Cleaning Science at the college where i took the course. For me i was more interested in the certificate that i'd be getting rather that learning how to do what i'd been doing for years any way (although as expected i did pick up a few new tricks from the course). I thought the course gave good basic core skills esp for those i trained with who had never done any cleaning before (which was a worry, or so i thought).

But for the record i have to admit i am one of those who worries about the H+S of using a public loo, esp those without lids. That said,  i did work briefly on the tills at Tesco when i started my buisness (i needed some regular money so needs must...) and having seen what went on there 'behind the scenes' i choose not to think too much about what might happen - if i did i'd never leave the house 

Stephen

[letzclean]

Thanks Guys,
                      Meeting went well was easy really! It is for the communal parts of a 12 properties on a regular weekly basis and we still have the end of tenancy and tenant cleans to negotiate. Yeh I may have sold short at £8.50 but a little of something is better than a lot of nothing! 



Have a good day