[MagicPatch]

Is it just me.

Am about to take on my first member of staff next week. Had some replies to a job advert and have asked them all to come for an interview next week.

The general reply seems to be one of surprise and they question why they are being interviewed. (almost like "Interview? It's only a cleaning job mate" kind of attitude).

Is it not the done thing to interview people for cleaning jobs?

I obviously need to see them before I decide who to give the job to, but maybe using the word interview puts people off.

I'm obviously not going to sit there and say things like "why do you want to work for this company" or "what attracted you to the cleaning industry", but surely it's important to have an interview of sorts to find out things like ... do they speak basic English, Do they have transport, Have they cleaned before...etc.

The impression I'm getting is that they don't normally have an interview for jobs like these.

What's the normal expectation in this industry?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Brian.

[Paul-T]

Brian

You MUST interview them. You need to be sure that you are employing staff that:

1 - have previous experience
2 - have checkable references - NEEDED more so today than ever before!
3 - will understand all relevant information - you don't want a law suit on your hands due to negligence!

It really doesn't matter whether its domestic, commercial, or industrial - you have to know your staff - have them fill out an application form but anyone raising these questions about "having an interview" I would advise DO NOT EMPLOY!!!

I hope the above helps ya!

[MagicPatch]

Oh I will definately interview regardless. I was just taken aback by the general attitude.

Saying that, the kind of people who have applied doesn't give me much hope.

One says her boyfriend will take her to work. So I'm wondering what if they have a row and she can't get to work?

One took me half an hour to work out what job he was applying for and he didn't know or really care.

The third one who applied, I found out the job isn't even for her, it's for her Polish Aunt who doesn't speak English, so she is going to bring her along, but have the interview on her behalf. huh?

How on earth am I supposed to get people to read and understand COSHH etc if they need a translator even for the interview. although you try to be PC, there has to be some health and safety issues here surely.

I'm not asking people to have a degree or anything, but the attitude of people towards this industry is appalling. People who think they don't need to speak English or even have an interview and expect to just walk into a job because it's cleaning.

Am I being to fussy do you think?

Brian.

[Bertie Boo]

Brian

No i dont think you are being fussy per-se BUT how much may i ask are you paying...? You then have to evaluate the number of hours that you need the cleaning operative to work for -because a lot of jobs are only 2 or 3 hours at a time and on the minimum wage at that, so really it is going to attract people who are half-arsed about it. When its a choice between working in a shop for £6 an hour or cleaning toilets for less i know what i'd do.

I dont know much about employing staff itself BUT i know of someone who got into hot-water when employing a labourer to work alongside him (he is an electrician) and he was told by the jobcentre in no uncertain terms that he could not specify english speaking applicants only.

To me cleaning is by and large a no-win situation - there isn't enough money in it to pay for the staff that we'd really like to employ. There is no way in this world i would clean the houses i clean for a company. No way. Yes, i love my job, but the price i charge is the money i earn (less expenses). I couldnt do it to make someone else a profit.

I dont think there is any answer to the 'problem'. You are right and i totally agree, there is not enough understanding or respect for the cleaning trade. But until we can charge the client £20 so that we can pay the staff a minimum of £10 and hour it just wont attract the people we'd like. And even then i'm not sure that would work.

Stephen

[MagicPatch]

I'm afraid it is minimum wage at the moment while I'm just starting out. Once that's paid plus Employers N.I. materials etc, I'm left with pennies.

And your right about the English speaking thing. The job centre's exact words to me were "you are not allowed to state "English speaking", but you are allowed to say "must be a good communicator". they are very good with advising on those sorts of things. My reply was, I'm sure they are good communicators...I just need it to be in English.

And there's nothing non-pc about that in my opinion, I just want to make sure my staff understand the dangers and work safely, so it's for their benefit when you look at it that way.

Brian.

[Bertie Boo]

Hi Brian

'Minimum wage', well that is perfectly understandable - at least i understand it, you gotta start somewhere when you're expanding...but the point is to a prospective employee 'is this an attractive position'? Chances are it probably isn't  Also there are lots of more established cleaning companies around who they may prefer to work for (if only for the 'security' it may offer, either real or imagined).

I think that you can't let things like 'my boyfriend will be bringing me to work' affect your judgement - yes, maybe she'll be stuck if they have a row and not bother turning up, but then she may be the type who would move heaven and earth to make sure she didnt let you down. Who knows? That wouldnt put me off as such, i'd be more worried about someone with a poor sickness record.

Anyway, what sort of cleaning do you do and what hours are you offering?

Cheers

Stephen

[MagicPatch]

Just some offices at the moment and offering one morning a week or 10 hours a week in the evening. So it's not full time or anything, just to take some of the work of my back as I am doing everything at the moment. I have domestics as well, but am doing them myself

I fully understand that these bigger companies can afford to pay more because they have probably bigger contracts and smaller overheads etc. But I'll get there one day I hope.

I have to take someone on though as it is becoming almost impossible to try to run a business when you are out doing all the work yourself.

But then you probably all know that as you were all in my position once.

[Bertie Boo]

hi Brian

I still am in your position. I decided -all things considered- to just work alone. I remind myself i went into this because i like cleaning and wanted to gain experience of cleaning for others (plus i was sick of being someones employee, i needed to work on my own for a bit) and not because i wanted to run a business. Could you not ask around people you know in case there is someone willing to lend a hand?

I had a lady help me out last year (i decided in the end it was easier for me to turn work down than try and do it all with help - it just didnt work out) and she was someone who i've known for a few years. She had been a hospital cleaner and when she gave it up she helped me for a few hours a week. Good cleaner, albiet slow and VERY unreliable... i take my hat off to anyone who is making it work in this game, i really have not got what it takes to make my own business bigger.

Stephen

[MagicPatch]

Thanks for that Stephen, I may ask around people I know. We'll see how it goes. I know we've come off the point a bit, but it just took me by surprise the attitude of some people.

It's not always about salary of course, a good boss, 4 weeks paid  holiday, company uniform and the odd bit of reward and recognition can go a lot further I think.

Brian.

[Bertie Boo]

Brian

I know this sounds a bit daft, BUT you could do a lot worse than get into a conversation with cleaners at a supermarket etc near to where you are needing help. You may well find someone who is willing to do a few more hours (although i dunno if its worth their while if they pay the full tax rate on the 'second job'), or indeed talk to the checkout staff. You just never know who knows someone who can help.

When i first started my business i had to do a part-time job as well so i went to work on teh tills in the local Tesco. I met so many people -staff and customers- who i told about my business. I was amazed at how much you can pick up in a supermarket.

Stephen

[Fox]

Hi

When people call about the job try to say 'can you come in to see me at some point?' rather than ask them in for an interview.  This is seen as much more informal and they are alot more receptive.  Don't dismiss people who call for others who's english isn't great, get them to come in, often people find it alot harder to communicate over the telephone but when they are face to face they may be able to hold their own, always remember with language it is easier to understand than to express, so just because their verbal isn't perfect it doesn't mean that they don't understand you (having said that you do also get the ones who say yes to everything lol) but you will be able to tell face to face.

When you see them ask them to fill in the application while they are there, as long as it is not a long complicated form they should be able to give you basic information, this will also tell you how good their reading and writing are (essential if you have a communication sheet on site). 

Some will come along expecting to be given the job there and then, explain to them that you have quite a few people after the job and that you will call them, even if you don't say this as it tells them they are replacable and they will remember this if they get the job. 

The other thing to do when you have decided who gets the job (aswell as the training) is instill in them that you expect them to be reliable and communicate with you, you must lay it on thick how important it is not to be let down and that if there are problems you need to be the first to know.  Most people will respond to this well and even if they are going to let you down will give you plenty of notice first!

Hope this helps somewhat.

Fox

[MagicPatch]

That's great advice.

Thanks Fox. Much appreciated.

Brian.

[Paul-T]

Brian

You have already received a number of responses but I fear some are not as helpful as they should be.......there again, it all depends on an individuals point of view......rather than experience.

The ingredient is INTERVIEW - meet with these people and be professional about it, that IS the only way you will find good staff. It doesn't stop there, maintain contact with them and never forget to praise them for good work!

What I have found here and elsewhere is those employing forget it is not always about money - people will work for you if you're a good employer, offer good job prospects/progression and treat them as a part of the company. You're a young company, don't be afraid of explaining this to any potential cleaner, let them in on YOUR ambitions for your company, you'll be surprised at how many good cleaners will prefer working for you than the one that may pay a slighter higher rate but are real crap to work for - these are the ones that have high turn over of cleaners. It is also important that cleaners receive pay rises, treat cleaners with openess and loyalty and they (majority) will treat you the same.

I would have a problem with all those you've stated that were interested in the position you were offering......

1 - If a person is so reliant on her boyfriend is there a chance she may not turn up for work and worse not even tell you. You need to ask her how she would deal with a situation when her boyfriend can't take her to work. It's only by asking these questions you become more informed and able to make a better judgement.

2 - If someone didn't know what they were applying for then what makes you think this person has a clue on cleaning? It could be that this person, since he didn't care, was making 'up' his applications ready for when he signs on but had no real passion to be a cleaner!

3 - Employing someone that does not speak English is a very risky thing to do - and you are legally entitled to refuse her employment on these grounds since this person would be placed at risk. This person would be placed at risk if she would be a lone worker, what would happen if there was an emergency....how could she communicate to those not understanding Polish? There is also understanding COSHH and health & safety issues - if she were working as part of a team then the risks would be far reduced, however lone working can be a dangerous thing for anyone...............

I agree with Fox - get all those interested to fill out an application form - this will also determine their literacy skills which is extremely important also - if you don't know about their skills then how can you be sure they are getting the correct training?

I'm not sure how you advertised but find alternatives - the benefits office will help out!

[MagicPatch]

Thanks Paul,

The advert is in the job centre and they have been excellent, giving me application forms and a room to interview in for free etc. They are very helpful.

One thing you said reminded me of a question. You mentioned COSHH, and a lot of cleans we do, we use the customers cleaning materials. Some are well known brands like FLASH and Mr Muscle, but some are lesser known varieties. There are so many different types and you can't have a COSHH for every cleaning product in the world, so how do you get around this.

......or don't you?

Brian.

[Robert Parry]

Im afraid its the law, no getting around it, if one of your staff mix the wrong sort of chemicals, and you do not even have the relevant data sheets, you would be on a hiding to nothing.

Just another reason why you should supply the chemicals, and not allow your staff to use either the client's chems or equipment.

Regards,

Rob

[Bertie Boo]

"Just another reason why you should supply the chemicals, and not allow your staff to use either the client's chems or equipment."

Exactly.

I've also never understood where a cleaner stood (or a client for that matter) if the cleaner received an electric shock off a customers equipment they were using.

I also belive that you can do a better job with all your own equipment and products. I wouldnt like to use the things i've seen hanging about my clients homes.

Stephen

[Paul-T]

Brian

Robert is right, obviously.

You have to have COSHH - however, for some cleaning items you don't!!

However, rather  than go into great detail about that it is probably safer to have it than not. Since you are a young company and just now relying on staff you may feel more comfortable just allowing your staff to use commercial/domestic products - for now.

There are alternatives - you could use products that are multi-usage. Many companies are preferring this method since not only is it safer but kinder to the envirnoment. Also using this method will cut back on the data/COSHH sheets/information you need on site. Perhaps you will move in this direction, of using your own chemicals and equipment, as you grow.

COSHH doesn't have to be as tough as it sounds - much of the information can be found on manufacturer/suppliers websites, these can be printed out and used as part of your COSHH information package to staff. Datasheets should also be sent by suppliers/manufacturers to you when placing an order for their products.

In order to comply with COSHH there are only eight steps you must follow, these can be found via the governmental websites - learn the eight well and you'll be on the right track......but keep in mind that it is also better to try and maintain over and above of what is expected!!

[MagicPatch]

Thanks everyone for your sound advice. Its a complicated business taking on staff, but it's great that we have this forum to chat to the more experienced who are always willing to help.

Thanks again.

Brian.