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mxg

  • Posts: 187
This is what we are up against!
« on: August 16, 2007, 03:26:25 pm »
Recently received an unsolicited "tender" from a local business - they wanted 2 prices - one of 5 day cleaning and also for 3 day cleaning

So I sent them pack our 'normal' proposal with all of the usual stuff - insurance details, health & safety policy, training certificates, details of work with similar organisations.

All designed to make us look like a professional business etc

And this is what I got back

"We requested three quotations, received two and have accepted the lowest (for 3 visits per week)"

Sometimes I despair!  :'(

Onwards and upwards

Mick

Bertie Boo

Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 04:21:15 pm »
hey mick!

i dont think i understand your despair...they asked 3 people for quotes, only got two, and had to make a decision based on the two quotes. So it was 50/50 really. Other than price, what factors could they have possibly used to make the choice? They most likely didnt have a clue what the difference between your company and the company they are going to use was.

Look at it like this, if they'd picked you then they'd have written to the other company syaing that they'd gone for the most expensive quote...and somewhere someone else would be 'despairing' at loosing out for being cheap.

i'm not being heartless, i just cannot fully grasp where you are coming from.

chin up dude

stephen

mxg

  • Posts: 187
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 09:24:55 pm »
Ok so maybe "despair" was not the right word to use.

I don't expect to win everything I bid for

But for somebody to turn around and pretty much say, "it doesn't really matter what you say in your proposal about how good you are, how well trained you are, how much insurance you have got, how much you know and care about health and safety, how professionally you treat every aspect of your business from proposal submission through to service delivery etc etc etc  ..................................................

we will still just go for the cheapest!!!!!!"

Mick

Bertie Boo

Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 10:03:14 pm »
Yeah but mick, thats my point, your was one of two quotes and side-by-side yours and the other persons may well have looked the same. So they made a choice and they based it on price. Seems understandable to me in the sense that the company they have gone for may well have been equally impressive - you're only assuming that you offered more than they.

There is also a school of thought that belives that the MORE that is said about what a service is offering the less likely some people will be drawn to it as they belive they are paying for things they may not need rather than that money being channelled directly into the actual product or service. I have no doubt that you are every bit as good as you sound, what i am saying is that not everybody is going to be impressed with what you (and doubtless others)  consider to be a very well put together and comprehensive information pack. Their loss, i'm sure.

What i dont understand is why they bothered to let you know that they'd opted for somone else. I thought people usually wouldnt bother (i know i dont) letting people know who hasnt got the job. To my mind they are shooting themselves in the foot because if the chosen company doesnt come up trumps and they fone you to say please do the work, that puts them at your mercy. Not that i am saying its bad for you, i'm saying they've done themselves no favours.

BTW, did they choose to reply or did they reply after you'd followed up the quote?

Cheers

Stephen

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 10:31:34 pm »
Think yourself lucky you got a reply. Write back to them saying you are dissapointed they didn't pick your quote but would be willing to offer your services in future should they need you. That way if the other companies slips up its likely they will call you.
Otherwise they might just bin your quote and end up phoning someone else.
On commercial work its always hard to pick up every job. A lot of it is done on price as that is the brief the person has been given. Always pays to try and find out why you weren't picked then you can alter things next time. Most people are willing to tell you why.

richyvezy

  • Posts: 137
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2007, 11:41:31 am »
I'm affraid it's the same all over - you win some but you lose more. Patients and consistent follow ups are the key which I'm learning fast.

We've lost out on contracts due to price alone (and we're far from expensive) only for the company to contact us some time later asking us to step in as the previous (cheaper) company wasn't up to scratch.

We also got invited to tender for our local Aldi's who were struggling to recruit a caretaker/cleaner from within. I was a bit gobsmacked as there was posters all over the place offering £7 per hour for 12 hours work over 6 mornings a week. I was sure they'd have no problem getting someone at that wage but the manager said no and that's why they were looking at outside contractors !!

In the discussion with the manager I told her that I would have to pay my staff member at least that (£7 ph) and that my quote would reflect that. "No problem, I fully understand" etc was the reply so I put my quote in and waited.

It was about a week or so later whilst talking to my next door neighbour that she mentioned she was now working at our local Aldi's for another cleaning company. When I asked how much she was getting paid, her reply was £5.40 per hour !! :o

How do you compete with that ? It doesn't take much to work out roughly how much the winning bidder quoted !! My neighbour was horrified when I told her the full story and feels cheated as it is bl**dy hard work for those 2 hours a day.

I have a feeling I'll be hearing from Aldi's in the not too distant future..........

Richy

Bertie Boo

Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2007, 01:11:45 pm »
...She should leave the company and ask Aldi to employ her directly, now that she knows what they are prepared to pay.

Stephen

richyvezy

  • Posts: 137
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 11:11:23 am »
Stephen

Aldi's were repeatedly asking her to quit the cleaning company and work for them direct but she held off as the demands of the job became too much and above what was agreed between them and the cleaning company. When she asked her boss to sort it out she was told to "just deal with it", charming or what ?
Well she quit this morning and told her boss to stuff it and that she wouldn't do the job if he paid her £10ph.
Now, what do I do if (as I expect) Aldi's ring me to step in...........

Richy

Robert Parry

  • Posts: 535
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 02:06:31 pm »
Clients very rarely understand the cleaning industry and what it actually takes to keep their premises clean, it is a sad fact that most cleaning companies are in exactly the same boat!

Contracts are at least 80% of the time decided on price, and not on what is really required, most clients have no idea of schedules, and once again most cleaning companies don’t either!

So the cost of the cleaning contract is constantly driven down by both the clients and the cleaning companies lack of real knowledge until eventually the contract breaks because the client is unhappy with the standard of the cleaning and the cleaning company cannot make a fair profit within the contract price, the contract is then put out to tender once again, and the cycle starts all over again.

The only way forward is to educate the client and for those responsible for taking on these contracts to have some proper training in business and the cleaning industry, anyone can win a contract by low balling, but not many can actually service said contract to meet their client's expectations, the present contract at your local Aldi's being yet another example of this.

Aldi's themselves are partly responsible for this, as you state that they:

1.  Asked for more work than was actually costed for in the contract, in effect trying to get more work for nothing (Driving down the cost).

2.  Tried to poach the cleaning company’s staff.

The cleaning company is responsible because:

1.  They didn’t listen and or have enough knowledge to actually service this contract.

2.  Their staff relations were no where near what is required.

This contract was just like most, awarded on price, not on what was actually required; do not make the same mistake!

You will find that most staff are prepared to work hard, but you have to make it worth their while, you also have to treat them with respect, as does your client, if the previous cleaner told you that it was bloody hard work, perhaps there is too few hours allotted to this contract, there are of course ways to actually find this out.

Honesty and integrity and real knowledge are the way forward be straight with your contact at Aldi, if he decides to once again to deal with the companies that have little or no knowledge, he will eventually have to deal with someone who does know what they are doing at a fair and realistic price, that person could be you, you already know that that does indeed happen from your own experiences, just keep your chin up, and join the ranks of the pros, let the amateurs fight it out at the "cheap" end of the market.

Regards,

Rob
A world of difference....

richyvezy

  • Posts: 137
Re: This is what we are up against!
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 02:42:52 pm »
Rob

Thanks for that, you can always rely on experience (over 30 years isn't it?) to make sense of an all too common problem in this industry. Although nowhere near the "pro" level yet, we are striving to eventually get there.

I'm not saying that everyone else isn't striving for the same goal but I do worry when new or young cleaning companies enter into these price wars just to get the contract !! I've been tempted I must admit but have learned quickly that I'd rather have 1 contract that we can service professionally, honestly and know the client is getting value for a decent price than have several low-end contracts that will give me more grief in the long run that'll mean I'll develop a "take it or stuff them" attitude.

This company must of known that Aldi's was looking for staff themselves at £7ph but still put a stupid price in knowing that they were only going to pay their own staff £5.40ph. It's well and truly backfired for both the cleaning company and Aldi's now.

If Aldi's do contact me I will still stick to my original quote which recommended 3 hrs per day instead of the 2 they were advertising. It was so obvious whilst walking around the premises, looking at the job spec and talking to the manager that 2 hrs just wasn't enough per day....but hey, they obviously know more about cleaning schedules than me !! Which begs the question of 'why ask me in the first place'??

I'd just like to say that I don't like talking about other cleaning companies for a number of reasons but mainly because he/she may be reading this and know that I'm talking about them !!  ;)

It'll be a very interesting conversation if Aldi's do get in touch with me, but if they are just thinking £ signs then I'm not likely to. We'll see.

Richy