[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Hi All,

After 19 years trad window cleaning and just over 1 year WFP.  I have gone through the initial learning curve of WFP and now I am totally convinced it is an excellent possitive step forward for our industry.

As I have stated before; there is now no NEED to use ladders contantly for window cleaning.  I have scars to prove how dangerouse ladders are and I believe that anyone seriousely in this industry should consider WFP seriousely.

We, as an industry, the associations and federations should be encouraging and helping ladder users to convert over to WFP.

Now I also feel we should not be forced off ladders by legislation defenitely making ladders for window cleaning illegal.  On the other hand legislation should stop those few idiot employers forcing workers up ladders!!

I feel the ONLY drawback to WFP is leaving the windows wet!  But iff this is looked at sensibaly then it should not be a consideration as the windows dry off perfectly well.


David Salkeld

P.S
Excuse the splening......err...spelnin......er spelling?

[mark f]

working in a rural historic area i find that the windows such as georgian sash ones with bad paint work are not as suitable for wfp, so i certainly wouldnt want ladders banned but am glad i have another tool i use about half the working week.

[groundhog]

I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway guaranteed!

[Adam Boss]

Ladders are not dangerous it is the people that use them, use them correctly then you will be fine.
That's great that you only use WFP but I for one like to use both WFP and TRAD.
I use trad more than WFP but WFP guys call ladders but think its ok to use them for access reasons. You can hurt yourself falling from 2 rungs up aswell as 10 rungs up.
It is upto the user to decide and common sense should prevail.
Regards

Adam

[Kev R]

I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway guaranteed!

Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?

Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it  than wfp has!

[ronnie paton]

Ladders arent dangerous? are you real if that was the case H&s wouldnt be bothering there time with changing the rules.

I know people who have used ladders for 20 odd years they dont like WFP but can admit defeat with the saftey issues, it takes one tired day or one gust of wind or sudden change of weather or one time you just mis place that foot!!

And that could be it, see you in the next life!!

As for those that use them for access at least there changing with the times and trying to change, there cutting down with the use of ladders which is most definatly safer!!


 

[xxmattyxx]

I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway guaranteed!

Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?

Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it  than wfp has!

Every litre of water that comes out of your domestic water-system goes through your local water companys pipes, it is there that it is treated with chemicals that do harm the environment, including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system.

Thats pollution, the addition of unnecessary chemicals to water thats flushed straight down the drain; not even used to flush the john.

Matt

[Adam Boss]

Ronnie, yes I am real and been cleaning for 20 years, used regulary and using them as they should be used then there is no problem. Useing ladders every now and then  is when you will have problems.
If we all thought like that Ronnie we would be all rapped up in cotton wool.
Ban cars cos they kill people every day, you don't drive do you Ronnie ?? if you do you must get real, you might kill yourself!!
Regards

Adam

[KarlJones]

including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system

80% ?!?  Mine is not even 50%,  but to be honest if the water company didn't try to call the stuff that comes out of taps water, and actually made it purer, there would be no need for RO systems.

So blame the water company mate, not the guy trying to make it suitable for a DI polish.

As for ladders and safety,  I am sure ladders can be used safely, but not profitably.  I tried it, using a ladder matrix and ladder stand off and making sure my ladder was safe every time.  It took forever.  But lets be totally honest.  The grave yard has loads of window cleaners that thought they were safer than they were so I suppose another one or two won't really hurt.

WFP vs Ladders, 

[Kev R]

I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway guaranteed!

Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?

Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it  than wfp has!

Every litre of water that comes out of your domestic water-system goes through your local water companys pipes, it is there that it is treated with chemicals that do harm the environment, including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system.

Thats pollution, the addition of unnecessary chemicals to water thats flushed straight down the drain; not even used to flush the john.

Matt

I dont use an ro system, and I collect & filter rain water

[ronnie paton]

asboss lets hope the next death or serious injury is not happing to you from a accident on ladders

And well you will notice that every thing chnges in life and mainly for the better like slower speed limits in certain areas saffer cars, must wear seat belts and no using phones whilst driving rules.

I guess you never had a near mis on ladders either.......your a living miracle!!

wrapped up in cotten wool.........well i like my life and will continue to do so as saftley as possible, yes accidents happen just walking down the street so y in courage these to happen by risking your life up a ladder!

[Adam Boss]

Ronnie,

sounds like your WFP only, maybe I am wrong but saftey is paramount to me and I adhere to H&S requirements thankyou,  and yes I do move with the times.
I give a first class job and I am 90% commercial and deal with H & S officers nearly every day. Risk and method statements are done on a regular basis and updated every year so don't try to preach saftey to me.
There are more hazards using a pole and hose and the quality is not as good as Trad. If giving substandard finishes are order of the day for you then get another job, maybe cut your pole down and start brushing the pavement.

Cheerrs

 

[NWH]

I`ve used ladders for over 15yrs but i try and use WFP on everything i can these days,i don`t understand why some of you wcs want to use ladders at all if you don`t have to,it`s a lot more knackering using ladders for a start let alone the safty aspect which is the most important thing.I know these topics can get boring but within a few years as more and more wcs start using WFP it will become the norm,and the bucket and ladder in the main will be long gone except for inside work of course.WFP is safer quicker and earns you far more money,why on earth would anyone want to climb ladders all day if they no longer have to,i was so sceptical about it at first but stuck with it and i`m so glad i did it`s now a pleasure going to work.

[ronnie paton]

preaching saftey??? 

"There are more hazards using a pole and hose and the quality is not as good as Trad. If giving substandard finishes are order of the day for you then get another job, maybe cut your pole down and start brushing the pavement."

really more hazards hey and substandard finish i guess you have never used it and if you did obvouslet not very good

i would start brushing tha pavement and make good money i would!!

now iv used ladders on and off for about 10 years and had many near misses but i enjoy my life and want to continue to do so.

i started Wfp (on my own 2 years ago) and never looked back and never had any near misses have built up my round from nothing with WFP and have a customer satisfaction.

so go on answer my question any near misses or do we already know the answers??

And if it ever comes to it i will use my pole to sweep you off the pavement 

[Adam Boss]

NWH, good post mate and you are right upto a point. With WFP you are looking for the right type of windows that will cope with the system, with trad you can do any window but if there is a window or job that is unsafe or you can't get to with trad thats when WFP comes into play.
As for money it's all down to your price, I make a good living only using WFP as a tool. ( an add-on ). I even clean cracked and windows where putty is falling out, when they are safe to do so.
People make out that WFP is the answer to all your window cleaning  needs but it's not, you have to cherry pick the jobs to suit your system.
I am not against WFP but lets all get real, it's a TOOL and a TOOL only.

Adam

[ronnie paton]

i agree but i good tool and tool that helps save lives!

but its not perfect no matter how good the operator is.

so have you had any near misses??

[NWH]

I also agree Asboss,jobs do need to be cherry picked in order for all to run smoothly.But once you have that`s when you can and only then really see the advantage of WFP,i also use trad but only when safe and on jobs that are to good to turn away,i have some weeks when i don`t need to get the ladder out at all and it`s then that i think god this job is easy.

[Adam Boss]

Ronnie,

your near misses were your fault, what were they  ? did you not use a saftey devise? if not then you are a hazard to yourself and others around you. Basic saftey measures are ladder stopper or similar and ladder mitts oh and of course not placing the ladder on uneven ground or slippy surfaces. The right angle and weather conditions also play a part. I control my working area and cone off for the public. Doin commercial work as I do means I cannot work unless these steps are followed. It's the same as driving a car, airbags crumple zones etc.as you pointed out.
Accidents happen and tripping over a hose or stepping back and falling over a wall are all hazards related to WFP.
I AM WFP ALSO RONNIE, I think you missed that .
If what I have wrote is incorrect and I am sure it's not then I will gladly back down.
Sweeping statements regarding ladders will just wind people up and cause friction. If you want to work a certain way then that's fine but don't put down guys who work differently from you.
You are a fellow shiner who works hard to make a living and i respect that.

Regards

Adam

[Adam Boss]

Sorry for the delay, the webpage went very slow and stopped for some reason.
Yes Ronnie I have had near misses and they were down to me rushing and not the ladders. I have not had a miss for quite a few years because I don't have to rush around any more, 6 hours a day does me fine.
You will get near misses in every job that is life I am afraid and hopefully you can come back and learn from it.
Regards Ronnie and it is Saturday night after all so going out  for a few beers

Adam

[DASERVICES]

Well said David have being saying this for ages.

Was listening to an experience today of a window cleaner who damaged his spine and was off work for six months. He had never had a fall in his life.

I think no one on this forum can say there is no risk of us falling off a ladder, there is always a risk involved going up a ladder but we do it. The problem today which I often now see happening is there are a growing number of obstacles being placed in peoples gardens for examples decking. People no longer consider "oh I should not put that there as my window cleaner would not be able to pitch his ladders to clean the windows". It is now becoming more dangerous to clean windows with ladders even with new builds.

Hence wfp is the tool to overcome these obstacles. People will still ask us to clean unsafe windows but now with wfp we can say that is the only option. But people need to be educated about health and safety and reasons why wfp should be used. The associations should be pushing the HSE  in promoting WFP, this is something the SLWCN will be doing.