Cheers chris for the pics, and other chris for the links....
they are the snap on types io think... when i get totally all set with van mount i will use snap ons i think... but just now i am messing with it all and basically getting there.... will try pirteks
thanks to all again.
oh and cheers petski... for reminding everyone ... i want a shop to walk in and buy when i need one or if they break ... :
Gary.