[Alan Rowley]

We've been offered some cleaning work in pubs in connection with the smoking ban. It seems like some pubs in our area are prepared to shut down for a few hours so that they can freshen the place up and get rid of the smell of smoke.

We haven't done any of this sort of work before as we tend to stick to domestic, but the money is so good we can't afford to turn it down.

The pubs want curtains cleaning and carpets freshening up, though not deep cleaned. I guess we would need an industrial steam cleaner and they are asking for something to sprinkle on the carpets and upholstery to make them smell nice.

Any advice would be extremely welcome as we need to act quickly.

Thanks!

[Art]

Hi Alan,

 If you don't deep clean the carpets, upholstery and curtains the smells going to come back. Steam cleaning carpets is another name for hot water extraction, which you need a carpet cleaning machine for, not a steam cleaner.

Sounds to me like the pubs are trying to do things on the cheap.

You really need to advise them to have a proper job done, as if you do it any other way, your leaving yourself wide open for comebacks.

Curtains need to be dry cleaned ( taken off site to a dry cleaners and returned) to many possible problems if your inexperienced.

Probably not what you wanted to hear.

Arthur

[Alan Rowley]

Thanks Arthur.

I realise that taking on something like this may be a bit daunting for someone as inexperienced as me, but we are talking about possible earnings of £500 a day here. With a possible contract duration of six weeks, I can't just dismiss this work lightly.

Going to speak to meet them in a couple of days so I will have more idea of the task then.

[Andy Foster]

If you are getting £500 a day then you should sub to a carpet cleaner for deep cleaning of the flooring and upholstery and just sit back and cream off the top.
Easy money and I am sure you will find a carpet cleaner that would be happy to work for less than £500 a day. (I'll do it  )

[Kleen Machine]

An Ozone generator will get rid of odors after all the cleaning is done.

[Alan Rowley]

Got some more details about the work today. I would appreciate your lots' comments.

Apparently we have to go to these pubs at any time during the day (open or closed). We have to 'sprinkle this powder' on the carpets, wait 15 minutes and then vacuum it off.

Also we have to 'steam clean' the curtains in situ 'just a quick wipe over'. We are also to 'steam clean' the upholstery.

We have three pubs a day to do over a six week period. The brewery are promoting it as a 'freshen up'

Not sure what equipment we will need, but another cleaner is involved and he is going to advise us on Monday.

Any advice from this forum would be very welcome as we are into new territory here. Can't afford to turn it down as the cash is too large and it should lead to more work.

[Andy Foster]

Hi

Using sponges to clean the carpets will indeed freshen them up albeit probably not enough to get rid of all the smells and stains but if that's what the customer wants then...
There are people out there who will clean curtains in situ,  but be careful doing this yourself because as I understand it, the fabric make up is crucial when choosing chemicals and methods used to prevent shrinkage.
The steam cleaning of the upholstery isn't a problem... you will need a hot water extraction set up, training and away you go.

All the very best with this, sounds like a nice little earner (only not so little!!!).

Kind regards

Andy

[gmcs]

What are they trying to get you to do to the carpets???

The carpet cleaner who comes in next to do the job will not like the "sprinkle and vac method" it will stick to the fibers and attract more dirt in the long run. Is this a national chain of pubs ?

[Liahona]

Speak with Paul Moss, he has been doing this for quite a while now.  I have found that most pubs smell worse now since the ban as the "smoke" smell counteracts all the "everything" smells.

Most pub owners suggest their pubs smell worse now than before  the ban.

I know Rob has said near where he is that business is down at the pubs but near me they have increased business.

They still get the smokers who now just smoke outside but they now get more non smokers to venture inside.

[Alan Rowley]

What are they trying to get you to do to the carpets???

The carpet cleaner who comes in next to do the job will not like the "sprinkle and vac method" it will stick to the fibers and attract more dirt in the long run. Is this a national chain of pubs ?

Yes, this is a national chain of pubs. The guy who interviewed us was very vague as to what is required. He works for a large refurbishments company and they got this job as a sideline. I don't think they want the work and want to sub it out to us.

Very sceptical and I'm thinking that I'm missing something somewhere.

[Dust Knights]

Alan, although this sounds lucrative I think it's not the deal it's made out to be and I would be very careful if I was in your position.

Firstly £500 over 3 pubs works out at £166.67 per pub. To clean the carpets, upholstery and curtains at an average pub should incur a charge much higher than that. I appreciate that economies of scale drive the prices down but not to that level (not by my values anyway).

Secondly the use of sponges/granules on a pub carpet (if it is sponges) is not the right product for a pub environment. If it's not sponges then maybe Shake and Vac is making a comeback.

You would need hot water extraction (steam cleaning) to takle any 'black top' although we do a couple of pubs with Charly Pads as they are cleaned quarterly and do not accumulate 'black top'.

Thirdly, you state that the pubs can be cleaned at any time in the day open or closed. Whilst you may be able to do one whilst the pubs are shut the probabilities are that you will have to clean two pubs while customers are there. How can you do this?

Customers aren't going to be happy about being moved from seat to seat so that the areas can be cleaned. Then there's the noise and trailing cables to worry about and after that if you are steam cleaning the upholstery there's the several hours drying times to consider.

The alternative is to work overnight and I think you'll struggle to get permission to do this.

I think you are right to be sceptical. The guy who works for the refurbishment company hasn't thought this through in terms of methodology or practicality. It is full of potential problems and if it was me I'd walk away or do it on my terms/methods etc.

Whilst the £500 per day may seem attractive, when broken down I don't think it is. A freshen up will not remove the tobacco odours and there could be repurcussions if they feel that they have paid for something that hasn't worked.

Chris

[Alan Rowley]

You obviously share my concerns Chris.

What worried me was that we weren't asked about health & safety, risk assessments, insurance etc - all things that I would want to know if I was in their position.

Why would a professional company want to sub out work like this without asking questions?

Very suspicious.

[Alan Rowley]

We've had discussions with the company again and they say that risk assessments and health and safety requirements will be discussed later. We have managed to get the price to £250 per pub, but these range from little back street pubs to large hotels in areas from Northampton to Hull and Skegness to Burton.

We have 90 pubs to tackle in six weeks. We will need to employ additional staff to cover our weekly customers - which bothers me and I'm sure our insurance wouldn't cover this type of work.

Speaking to them again today, but I'm fairly sure I will turn the work down. They told us the work was all for a particular brewery, but I have done some research and there are about half a dozen breweries involved. I've a feeling this company have got the work themselves and want to dump it on us after taking a large slice.

I bet they are charging £500 per pub.

What do you think they are up to?

[gmcs]

I would say they have taken on more than they can cope with..........the area you mentioned sound like a lot of milage to cover ! Are they paying for your overnight stays???

I wish you luck but I would stay clear if they are saying they will cover Risk & HS later.....it will be different for each venue unless they EXACTLEY THE SAME SIZE AND SHAPE......bet they are not

[Dust Knights]

Alan, that is a major task even for a larger, more established company than yourselves. The risk is massive if there are penalties for not completing the job on time.

Then you add on the issue of employing people whom you would need to trust. Would you be able to get such staff on a short-term basis?

I don't see the paperwork side of H&S as such an issue. It's easy to prepare method statements and risk assessments that are generic but could be tweaked on a laptop when you arrive at site and then printed off.

Then you have the capital outlay of equipment which you may not use again as well as the laptop and printer.

What do you think they are up to?

I wouldn't waste my time thinking what they are up to, I would be more concerned about the alarm bells ringing loudly in my head.

I would definitely walk away - and I'm a risk taker!

Chris

[Alan Rowley]

We told the company today that we weren't interested in their work. They seemed quite surprised and said that the other cleaner involved seemed confident they could do three cleans a day.

I told them that I couldn't imagine many pub landlords wanting cleaners in when there were customers around. I told them I had asked colleagues in the cleaning industry as well as members of the pub industry.

I hope the other cleaner knows what he's doing.

Thanks everyone for your comments on this matter.

ALAN.

[Andy Foster]

Sounds like a wise move.
Shame about the loss of income, but the potential pitfalls did seem too deep.
The good thing is, if they now ask you to do it, you can get the right amount of money for the work.
You never know, the 'other' cleaner may do one day and run!

All the best

Andy