[windows_chepstow]

I've become a window cleaner after 17 years service in the Army.  The one thing I miss is working with people and the camraderie.  Window cleaning is quite a solitary life - no matter how much you 'chew the fat' with your customers.

When-ever I meet a fellow window cleaner I always take the time to introduce myself and ask the usuall questions (how many, how much, what do you use, etc).  

I've also had work put my way from the window cleaners I've met who've asked for my card.  Normally the houses they don't want to do!

I've been thinking that if all the local window cleaners in this area got together, say once a month or every three months, in a non-formal setting, (a quiet function room in a local pub), and we discussed local window cleaning type issues and house swapped (a bit like monopoly), we could make each of our working lives slightly easier.

It could be a good forum (a bit like this) for swapping tips, views and informing on bad customers (I've not had any, but heard of a few).

Has anyone ever done anything like this?  Has anyone any views or tips?  

I'd love to hear your comments before I try to get all of Chepstow and Caldicots window cleaners together.

Thanks for anyone taking the time to read this.

Tosh (Chepstow_Windows)

[Terry_Burrows]

;)Hi,what about the National federation of master window cleaners,give them  a call,0161 432 8754 get a starter pack ,you will get a mag,and you will be in touch with window cleaning from all aspects and the best bits of being a Federation member!

[windows_chepstow]

I've done that, but it's not exactly a user friendly organisation.  Can I phone them and ask them to put work my way that they can't do?

The National Federation does a good job and has it's place, however what I'd like is to form a LOCAL (not National) Federation.  There must be at least fifteen to twenty window cleaners (full and part time) in this area.

Tosh.

[Rob_B]

I'm pleased you get on well other window cleaners in your area. In our town other window cleaners look at you like they want to slit your throat rather than speak to you. I can't understand it, there's plenty of work for everyone.

[Terry_Burrows]

;)if you become a member they can send out tender lists to you of say companys or councils,but will only do this if you are a member,it costs nothing to ask for a starter pack,by the way I am on the Board of the Federation give them a call,tell them I said so,they will guide you they are very helpful ;)mention my name
good luck

[Majestic]

 Mr Turbo
I have been a Fed  member only a couple of years and have never been sent a tender list  . I thought that theFed  sent your name to your local council  when you joined , or do you have to ask them to do it  

[Andrew]

Tosh,

FORMATION OF LOCAL BRANCH

If you are already a member of the Federation, Terry should be telling you that they are supposed help you form a local group if you want to.  Look at rule 14 in your Fed rule book devoted to the way in which "branches", "areas" should be organised and run.  The "Federation" part of the name relates to a national federation of local groups of window cleaners.  At one time there were lots but now just 1 or 2 (Grimsby, Sheffield).  

I found when i worked with the Fed that news of the possible formation of a branch was greeted with enthusiasm at Executive Committee level. When i floated the idea of creating a branch in Leeds though, about 6 years ago, i experienced behind the scenes resentment, if not hostility.  

Whether they exist or not now i am not sure but there were local groups not affiliated to the Fed, in Birmingham and Oldham.

I wrote an article for American Window Cleaner mag on the history of British window cleaning. One of the apects i researched in depth was the local branch system (1800's to 1990's) Most of the data remains unpublished but have it in electronic form.  Some of the details may be of interest to you

I wish you well with the formation of your branch.  

Andrew from Edu-Clean UK

[sam hughes]

Andrew why start a "proper fed", the the effort you go to, and highly detailed I'm sure your fees would represent value  

[Andrew]

Andrew why start a "proper fed", the the effort you go to, and highly detailed I'm sure your fees would represent value

I'm not sure what your saying here but would be grateful if you explained  

Andrew from Edu-Clean

[sam hughes]

Hi Andrew,
no it doesnt make sense, It was just a thought I jotted down.
It seems that any question put to the federation people is responded by a course explanation followed by become a member. In your answers it sounds like you know what you are talking about, and actually take the time to research or answer a question properly - such as karlosdave's (chap in spain) enquiry.
I am sure I would have more faith in the fed probaly be a member if I could see they were commited to make a difference - things such as this forum. From your replys it sounds you had some good ideas in the fed and its a shame they dont have the same enthusiasm as you

[sam hughes]

PS that first post was meant to say:  why not start a proper .....

[windows_chepstow]

Andrew,

Thanks for the reply, and yes, I'd love to have your unpubished data on the history of window cleaning.

I didn't even realise there was a history to it!

Thanks for your help.

Tosh.

PS.  Why did you receive behind the scenes resentment from the Fed for suggesting to start up a local Fed?

[Londoner]

I like the idea but in reality most window cleaners round my area are bozos and wouldn't want to know.
If windows Chepstow would like to contact me at old.man@ukonline.co.uk I will send him some stuff I have for ex servicemen that is not really relevent to this discussion group but he might find interesting if he misses the company.

[windows_chepstow]

Dear Londoner,

I'm sorry you feel that way about your local window cleaners.  They can't be all 'bozos'.  

In this job we hear bad things about fellow window cleaners.  People will take you on saying their last window cleaner did a bad job, charged too much or didn't turn up.

When you meet the window cleaner in question, he always seems to me, like a professional, hard-working intelligent human being. (Apart from one).

My missis who can be negative at times, always asks me why I introduce myself to fellow window cleaners.  I tell her the Jewish nation are rich, good at publishing, because they network.  Local window cleaners need to network.  The best window cleaners always ask for my card, so that they can put work my way if they can't do it.

I do the same.

Say hello to the 'bozos'.  They might be good guys once you approach them.

Tosh.

[Majestic]

Londoner
I think that where ever you go what ever job you do you will allways come across them , been there , seen it done it ,got the t shirt .Where I live I think that there are about 15 window cleaners  13 are ok, the other 2  I would not put water on them if they were on fire ,you cant talk to them they know everything , it`s there loss they are missing the pleasure of my company

[andy]

Cheapstow!!!!

Hi ya there, trying being a londoner. Business is alot diffrenent then the smaller citys and towns. TRUST ME.

Its harder to get customer and keep them, most  but not all,     try and stab each other in the back to get business.

sorry for putting you down but im just saying it like it is!

ANDY.

[Andrew]

Andrew,

Thanks for the reply, and yes, I'd love to have your unpubished data on the history of window cleaning.

I didn't even realise there was a history to it!

Thanks for your help.

Tosh.

What i was offering you (pehaps not very clearly - sorry ) were details about anything I had gleaned from my research that might help you make a success of your group.  Sounds (and is) mercenary i know, but as a business providing education, training and consultancy details of the information we hold only go out for a price.  Information is our key commodity. Research to obtain it is costly.

Window cleaning was an occupation originally linked to medeival glazier's guilds. Glass then was hard to produce and costly, so those who had glass, the church and those who had whealth were not just going to let anyone loose on it! With idustrialisation, and improved methods of glass manufacture local window cleaning groups became a common feature of the 19th century. They were were akin to local trades union groups and cooperatives that began to spring up and develope at the same time.  

PS.  Why did you receive behind the scenes resentment from the Fed for suggesting to start up a local Fed?

I can only guess at the reason.  My personal beleif is that a few on the Executive Council would see a revival of federalism within the NFMW&GC as a threat to their own authority as members of a centralised governing beaurocracy. All i can say with certainty is that it was definately made clear to me, by certain ones, that my efforts to form a local group were not welcome.  

Andrew from Edu-Clean UK

[andy]

Damn with what they say!  Dont let them push everyone and you around. If you want to make a mini fed, then do so!

Ask your self! why dont they want you to? its common sense. You will just be offering more support to the industry, and i think that the national fed is not capable of moving this industry forward.

ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND THE SMALL EARNERS THAT CAN MOVE THIS INDUSTRY!

Go for it buddy!

Andy.

p.s. What do you have to lose?

[Rick]

i don't know what sort of guys you all are. as in, i don't know if you are cleaning high office, mulitstory, contract work etc. but i'm a 'house' window cleaner. as in, i clean residential housing.

as i understand it, 'rounds' do still exist. and people generally tend not to poach one anothers work (pick it up from summons from customers maybe, but not canvas and poach type stuff).

anyway, the monopoly of rounds is generally being eroded even in this line of work. in other words, i do seem to have 'friendly' window cleaners on my patch, but i also have an understanding with them (with the limited contact i have with them).

but surely contract and office type work is almost completely bussinesslike and competitive?? although i've always thought that a few beers and a bit of price fixing would go down well in any form of bussiness, not just window cleaning

[Andrew]

Andrew why start a "proper fed", the effort you go to, and highly detailed I'm sure your fees would represent value  

I have an open mind about this. You are far from being the first to ask me. At present I prefer to think in terms of recreating the Federation than forming an entirely new one.  There is also the possible option of forming a UK chapter of another European window cleaning association, or perhaps the IWCA.

d**n with what they say!  Dont let them push everyone and you around. If you want to make a mini fed, then do so!  Ask your self! why dont they want you to? its common sense. You will just be offering more support to the industry, and i think that the national fed is not capable of moving this industry forward.

ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND THE SMALL EARNERS THAT CAN MOVE THIS INDUSTRY!

Go for it buddy!

The time i was thinking of forming a local association in Leeds was when i first joined the Fed's Executive Committee back in 1996.  The Fed had written to me (July 1993)  actually inviting me to form a local branch of the Fed, explaining how it could be done, and how it would operate.  I had always meant to follow the July 93 letter up but never got around to it.  When i was elected to the Executive Committee i assumed forming a local branch would be much easier for me and decided to get on with it.  I thought forming a local branch would be a help to the Fed too.  As an enthusiastic  newby to the Executive Committee i was quite stunned to be warned off.

If i wanted to make "a mini fed" i'm sure i could, but personally i dont need one now.  I am an active member of my local British Institute of Cleaning Science (BICS)group.  What the Fed fails to give me through not having local representation, I can obtain, in the main, from contacts within my local BICS group. Also these days window cleaning provides only a small part of my income.  Most of what i earn comes through cleaning industry education and training.

Andrew from Edu-Clean UK