Hi Trevor,
Again with respect, you actually have not answered the points at all, and you still seem to be regarding me with a level of hostility that I find puzzling.
The real point is, the apwc has hardly any members, no chairman and no money. How can you purport to represent an industry in a such a situation? That is the point that needs answering, and you are still ignoring it.
These are important points, because without members, you in fact dont represent anyone except yourself. Without money, you will be unable to sustain the legal challenge when it becomes necessary, let alone any other action that becomes necessary to fund. And without stable leadership, you will lack the direction needed in a complex situation such as this. You can't claim to represent the industry just because you want to, you have to have the numbers to back it up! I know that, DEFRA knows that, anyone in their right mind knows it!
What I'm saying is that if you try to get involved in the debate on this basis, you are likely to do more harm than good, as has happened in the past.
I also think you are totally misunderstanding what I am saying. (Perhaps its my rambling way of posting, others have commented on that in the past!)
You have taken my example of water-fed poles and the fed, and completely missed the point. The point I was trying to make is that, history tells us that on the occasion where what is best for the industry is not best for its association, the association will most likely act in its own interests above that of the industry (as happened fed have done with WFP). I wasn't referring to the apwc, and I would have thought it would be pretty obvious that situation did not apply to the apwc. I know you don't sell equipment!
(Ian Giles, steve lowe old friend, do you understand what I'm getting at here, or am I really not making sense?)
I have 15 years experience in this industry, operate a successful window cleaning company as well as being a member of the FED, Clearchoice,APWC,FSB,Chamber of Commerce,Safecontractor so I am confident that my decisions I make are professional, responsible and accountable.
Again, if you actually read what I have written, you would understand that I am not having a go at you, and I am sure that your motives and professionalism are not in question. There has been no mudslinging, and I have been nothing but civil to you throughout this whole topic.
You seek to collect opinions by means of this forum, but I can tell you with a good degree of certainty this forum does not represent a fair cross-section of window cleaners. Hardly any window cleaners I know use the internet and email, let alone forums. In order to properly collect opinions, you would have to send out paper questionaires.
And there is the problem, to do even a simple exercise like mail out a few thousand questionaires to window cleaners takes money, and for that reason the apwc is unable to do it.
When DEFRA is finished being unimpressed by the number of members the APWC is claiming to represent, next they will question your data and how it was collected. DEFRA isnt stupid, they arent about to make a policy decision with wide ranging implications without first ascertaining that the data its based on is reliable. The question would go something like:
"As you are claiming to represent the industry, other than internet forums, what methods did you employ to collect the opinions of those window cleaners who do not use forums?"
Will you say "um, er, no we couldnt do that becasue actually we havent got any money"
This is what I mean about doing more harm than good.
-Philip
