[Davew]

10k reinvestment would be pretty phenominal for a single operator. I've picked up over three fifty this week part time, however I've also forked out £185 for a van service, £170 for van tax, £20 for fuel, £30 for a new hose, plus a new twelve foot extender with brush to be paid for. The overheads are pretty horrendous for such a simple job (wfp). The good news of course will be that much of this can be offset against income tax at a later date. To get up and running as a new business venture has probably cost around £10,000. if I count the cost of my vehicle. Not quite in the same league as a bucket , shammy and ladder.

[geoffreyspecht]

if u want to make money in this game got to be prepared to work long hours,especaily in the summer.

[Londoner]

This is exactly why I am so opposed to the sort of posts that invite people to say how much they can earn from window cleaning.
There was one a while ago that was constructed like a survey. Some of the posts contained more than a whiff of Bulls**t and the trouble is people believe them.

I know I could, indeed should, be charging more than I do. My wife tells me so all the time. However, prices are going to be more competitive in the future because new window cleaners are starting up all the time. They are being displaced from other trades and professions by a massive influx of cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Its only just starting to happen but its going to get worse.

I was talking to a bloke this week who for the past few years has had a thriving business doing wood flooring. His work has all but disappeared because every way he turns he is being undercut by Polish "gangmasters" who don't do the work themselves but just act as a middle man employing thier own people.
They have got it all very well sewn up, not just flooring, they do everything, painting, decorating gardening,general building etc while their wives and girlfriends do cleaning jobs and work in nursing homes and shops.

The effect on the local trades people round here hasn't really started to become evident yet but there are a lot of men out there who are struggling in silence. However, they can't stay silent for ever. They have bills to pay and most of them own a set of ladders. You can work the rest out for yourself.

[Davew]

Same in my area regarding cheap labour. I'm just trying to point out that as far as wfp goes it's certainly not a cheap and easy business venture to get into, it can't be started on a shoestring. The overheads are just too high if your starting out without an existing round and no other means of income. However I can't think of another trade where once you have your customers they can remain loyal for twenty five years!

[Londoner]

The loyalty thing is a good point. The trouble is most of my loyal customers have one foot in the grave and I'm not likely to see twenty years out of them

[Count Phil]

Don't worry too much. Its already hard to start up a round unless you like rubbish work. Most people who start up drop out, new ones pick up that work and drop out. The good work is held by regulars who stick it winter in winter out. Think of all your good work, how many want immigrants looking through their bedroom windows just to save a few pounds?

Thing is, even with good prices, undercutting will only save the person a fiver at most and they would already have dropped you for the summer brigade long ago if they wanted to.

It may get harder to pick up new work but if you're long term, you will still grow.

Come one, with building it's different, you can save thousands or even hundreds by getting the poles in. Window cleaning a couple of quid. Unless you're in a depressed area, don't worry.

And those poles etc will soon have a mortgage and teenagers etc and everything else that makes living here so expensive. They will soon have to charge just as much, so don't worry!

[window pain]

How is it tony blair can claim that  immigration is good for the country, when so many people are losing their jobs to foreigners. whats happening now was predicted , but the government said it was scaremainering to make these claims, migration benefits only big business and the middle classes instead of paying the working man a decent wage they will employ a foreigner for peanuts,   

[Tosh]

migration benefits only big business and the middle classes instead of paying the working man a decent wage they will employ a foreigner for peanuts,   

I 100% agree with this post.  I'd hate to be a building site laborour, ware-house employee or road-technician in this current climate of cheap labour.  About 15 years ago I remember a mate leaving the army to do something with motorway maintenance.  He said the work was tough, but the money was 'cracking'.  I doubt it is today.

Employers must be rubbing their hands together in glee.  They've got cheap labour and plenty of it. 

Not all of it is quality labour though.  I once spent a weekend humping mail-bags for Royal Mail; that was an eye-opener; I can tell you.  Loads of ethnics trying to do as little as possible for as long as possible.  My dark-skinned 'comrades' were leaving the 'difficult' stuff and I ended up doing anything 'awkward', and I thought, 'Blimey, here I am doing work that Somalians refuse to do?!!?'

I'm not racist, but working for a weekend in Royal Mail definately changed my views on certian things.

how many want immigrants looking through their bedroom window...

My customers do; I'm an immigrant!

[Russell Macdonald]

Tosh.

My customers do; I'm an immigrant!

I met you at the NEC, dont compare yourself with most immigrants that have come here. You have made this your home, working & paying your way. A bloke who i would have as a friend & welcome into my home.

The majority of immigrants want us to change our lives to fit in with theirs & Tony our Scottish Dictator is such wimp he sucks up to them.

If the avarage immigrant was like you we would be on a winner.

Macc

[simon knight]

Where I live and work in SW London lots of my customers have loft extentions etc to give extra space and save on the ludicrous cost of moving . And almost invariably the work is done by Poles...as is general painting and decorating, odd jobs and the like. Not only that their cleaners. child-minders, gardeners...the list goes on...are also East European...WHY?

I asked a customer who was having the side of her house extended why she was used East European labour rather than English...here's the jist of her reply:

"Of the various local companies I asked to quote for the job 4 were English and one was a Polish guy recommended to me by a friend. Of the 4 English firms 2 didn't show up and 2 did. Of the 2 that did both quoted silly money for the work involved and added that they couldn't start for a few months. The Polish guy quoted 35% less and could start immediately."

I asked: But how did you find their work/schedule-keeping?

She replied: Work great and schedule spot-on.

She did add that occassionally there was a slight language barrier.

Certainly the building trade (where I live) is going over to cheap EE labour...for now....will it affect Shiners?...I'd be surprised because relative to building work we charge peanuts and (please somebody correct me if I'm wrong) window cleaners don't exist on the continent beause their windows open inwards therefore window cleaning isn't something that would occur to a Polish guy.

[jeff1]

Customer:  So how much?
Me:  £13
Customer: Gosh that sounds cheap

Bugger 

Then the next door neighbour comes out.

Neighbour: How much do you charge?
Me (through gritted teeth) £13
Neighbour: When can you do them?

So now 2 new jobs that are underpriced...or more accurately where I could have got away with a bit more.

Although I tell them I do the frames, if the above happens to me, If they say to me is that all, I quickly reply to them, would you like me to include the frames then?? they always say yes and you can then add another £4-5 job done Boys price up them and you are happy, works every time

[simon knight]

I gotta say Jeff that's the best bit of advice I've had....Gawd bless ya mate

[Tosh]

Although I tell them I do the frames, if the above happens to me, If they say to me is that all, I quickly reply to them, would you like me to include the frames then?? they always say yes and you can then add another £4-5 job done Boys price up them and you are happy, works every time

Jeff,

That is good; I like that!  I can't wait to use your line, but I'm braver with my prices (usually) nowadays; so I may have a wait!

[dai]

So A Polish guy comes over here, can't speak English and gets a job, no problem.
How come the workshy dolites, and we all know some, can't find work?
If they had have got off their lazy backsides, their would be no jobs for immigrant workers. Dai

[Paul Coleman]

Where I live and work in SW London lots of my customers have loft extentions etc to give extra space and save on the ludicrous cost of moving . And almost invariably the work is done by Poles...as is general painting and decorating, odd jobs and the like. Not only that their cleaners. child-minders, gardeners...the list goes on...are also East European...WHY?

I asked a customer who was having the side of her house extended why she was used East European labour rather than English...here's the jist of her reply:

"Of the various local companies I asked to quote for the job 4 were English and one was a Polish guy recommended to me by a friend. Of the 4 English firms 2 didn't show up and 2 did. Of the 2 that did both quoted silly money for the work involved and added that they couldn't start for a few months. The Polish guy quoted 35% less and could start immediately."

I asked: But how did you find their work/schedule-keeping?

She replied: Work great and schedule spot-on.

She did add that occassionally there was a slight language barrier.

Certainly the building trade (where I live) is going over to cheap EE labour...for now....will it affect Shiners?...I'd be surprised because relative to building work we charge peanuts and (please somebody correct me if I'm wrong) window cleaners don't exist on the continent beause their windows open inwards therefore window cleaning isn't something that would occur to a Polish guy.

I don't think that's the problem though.  The problem could be with too many displaced building workers taking up window cleaning.

[simon knight]

Must admit I'd not thought of that aspect but I don't really feel it'll impact what we do. Reason being that builders quote ££££s for a job that's gonna take 2-3 weeks and it's gonna be a one-off. Whereas we quote for a job that's gonna take a bit of a day but it's 6-12 times a year. I just don't think it's easy to go from seldom but lots to often but little...if you follow.

[Mr.G]

there's always been immigration, but it's never caused unemployment before, in fact there was very little unemployment in previous times of immigration, the 50's and 60's for example.