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How much should you be worth
« on: March 29, 2007, 06:41:10 pm »
Having been in the window cleaning industry for some years now it has opened my eyes as to how prices have been stagnant for many years. In any other industry you can earn a decent wage as well as saving up for that new van you want in 3 yrs. The biggest draw back in charging what you are worth is the fear of being under cut by you know who.

If you did not have that risk what prices would you like to charge and how much would you like to earn as a sole trader. Mine would be for domestic only :-

£20,000 for working 3 days a week
£6 min charge
£10 for a 3 bed house.

Doug

Davew

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 08:34:13 pm »
Mmm I think there is a difference between what you would like to earn and what you actually earn.

Biscute

  • Posts: 467
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 09:42:35 pm »
I would worry bout being undercut, if you do a good job inc frames and all the other bollics let them know and sell your self as the best thing ever then when a new bloke comes they will be  NO NO NO before they even ask.
Dont argue with a retard, they will just pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.

groundhog

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 11:06:50 pm »
Put your prices up mate! I charge double what most window cleaners charge in my area, and treble what some of them charge, but I hardly ever lose customers to the cheaper cleaners, in fact I reguarly get their customers wanting me to clean their windows. Why? because I do a great job, I am reliable, friendly and proffessional, I also get recommended to people from my existing customers. £10 for a 3 bed house sounds cheap to me, anyhow you should charge on how many windows the house has, not how many bedrooms. Minimum £1 per window, more if they are large, leaded or georgian.

Mike 108

  • Posts: 650
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 11:16:56 pm »
Groundhog

How do you charge for a stone bay with 3 windows and for a single 'straight' frame (e,g, picture window) with 3 panes of glass in it? The same or differently?

Cheers.

Mike

petski2

  • Posts: 652
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 11:23:19 pm »
£20000 a year for 3 days is about right for my area.
Your prices sound same as mine mate.
At the end of the day £20000 is less than £140 a day over 48 weeks.
If you average £25 an hour thats less than 6 hours per day for 3 days a week.
What a great life we have. :)

groundhog

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 11:28:40 pm »
Depends how big it was, but I would probably charge £2.50. I always charge as high as I think I can get away with, as if they say it is too expensive, you can always lower the price a bit. But it is really annoying when you price a job and the customer says 'that is a lot less than I thought it would be'! you can't then put the price up as it is too late!!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 11:46:08 pm »
Pricing is so important in our job,get it wrong and you hate doing it.Any new work that comes in gets a big price if they want it it`s a bonus if not oh well next.

simon knight

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 11:30:26 am »


Customer:  So how much?
Me:  £13
Customer: Gosh that sounds cheap

Bugger  :(

Then the next door neighbour comes out.

Neighbour: How much do you charge?
Me (through gritted teeth) £13
Neighbour: When can you do them?

So now 2 new jobs that are underpriced...or more accurately where I could have got away with a bit more.

Trademark WC

  • Posts: 81
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2007, 02:05:18 pm »
SIMON

I think your forgetting that you are the boss and you decide if you want to clean for that price.

If I was you I would have cleaned the job tell them you made a mistake with your pricing and it will be x amount from now on as it takes longer than you first thought. They will have a chance to see how good your work is and probably keep you on. You got to be firm mate your the boss.

I did this with a flat today inside out £30, took bit longer than I thought cos she had stuff in the way. I said to the lady at the end of the job that I underpriced it slightly it will be £40 from next month and she said fine !! cos she could see how good we was.

Rob
Ps sorry boys didn't mean to jack the post

simon knight

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 03:33:14 pm »

Rob, I think £13 is probably about the right price for the job...it's just that I could have said £16 or £18 and still got it.

Like you if I find that I've massively under-quoted eg: I reckon it's gonna take 45 mins and it turns out to be twice that I always explain to the customer that this time I'll do it for what I've priced it at but next time it'll have to be more. I find that most happily accept this and to the few that don't it's aufweidersehn pet.

mgba_78

  • Posts: 437
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 04:04:31 pm »

If you did not have that risk what prices would you like to charge and how much would you like to earn as a sole trader. Mine would be for domestic only :-

£20,000 for working 3 days a week
£6 min charge
£10 for a 3 bed house.

Doug

Well, some may say i'm being greedy but,

£40k for working 20 days per month(3 weeks domesic and 4 and half days commercial)
Dont care about min charge as long as i achieve that target

Obviously untill im full there will be a bit of underpricing but once im busting with work this will either recieve a price hike or replace with better priced new work.
Oooooo that is shiny!!

Count Phil

  • Posts: 656
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 04:22:08 pm »
'that is a lot less than I thought it would be'! you can't then put the price up as it is too late!!
All you say is 'and for the frames and sills it will be £a bit more.00'
as you do them anyway your really charging more and the customer thinks its an extra worth having!

Paul Coleman

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 04:42:28 pm »
Another one is to quote VERY high and if they query too much say "...and that's for the first clean which takes longer but for subsequent maintenance cleans it will cost £xx"

Londoner

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2007, 09:41:40 am »
I wish I was hard and ruthless and could charge what I want to charge. The trouble is my mouth lets me down. I go in thinking " fifteen quit, I'm gonna tell her fifteen" Then when I get to it my stupid mouth blurts out twelve. I think there must be a medical name for it - Pratt Syndrome perhaps.

Paul Coleman

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2007, 09:49:23 am »
I wish I was hard and ruthless and could charge what I want to charge. The trouble is my mouth lets me down. I go in thinking " fifteen quit, I'm gonna tell her fifteen" Then when I get to it my stupid mouth blurts out twelve. I think there must be a medical name for it - Pratt Syndrome perhaps.

No way.  You are definitely the first ever sufferer  :)

Vincentitis it should be called  :)

I have done this before too though.  I can still do it but the number that comes out is now higher than the one in my head.
It's known as shineritis.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2007, 11:07:58 am »
I wish I suffered more from 'Shineritis'....more often I seem to have an attack of Vincentitis :-\

I have got better now though, I'm in remission most of the time 8)

But how much should I be worth??

Well a year or two ago my target was 25k, I consistantly wanted to clear £500 per week, and by that I mean my wage and not my business turnover..there is a big difference.

Since Christmas I have (so far) probably acheived that target.

And that's with all the business costs taken out, van lease, fuel, running WFP system and so on.

Don't kid yourself that your daily turnover is your wage...it ain't, so, so many make this basic mistake.

You want to know what what you are really earning (as a business, not income) then look at your tax return, that's the bottom line.

Just because you can go out and, say...knock out 4 semi's in an hour, and you are charging a tenner per semi does not mean you are earning £40 an hour.

It is no use living in the 'NOW' as it just does not give you true perspective.

Not that it is easy to explain to the customer who looks at her watch as she hands you £12 and says something like, "Blimey! You didn't take 10 minutes on my house, you must be raking it in!"
You probably took 15 or 20 minutes, but it will have felt like no time at all to her, and if you turn around and try and tell her you are earning nothing like £60 an hour she'll just give you one of those, "Yeah..righ >:(" looks  :-\

And of course you also FEEL the same as her don't you? On that single house it actually FEELS like you are earning top money.
And on the many other houses that are exactly the same, you still FEEL that way don't you...

But then at the end of the year you stick in your tax return and instead of £40,000 your return is a more modest £18,000...
But you are supposed to be earning at least £25.00 an hour, you KNOW you are, you can knock out 3 house an hour at a tenner a pop comfortably, and you can do it all day long too...if you want to that is...
And you scratch your head in perplexity, why, every day I go out I top above a ton in turnover every time >:(

Few of us truly understand business, we are just ordinary blokes, who, if not out there cleaning windows we would probably be driving a van or delivering mail, or putting out fires....

Acheiving a top income is more than possible with window cleaning, and some out there are earning top level incomes, they are organised and professional and they UNDERSTAND business!!!

If you think you think you are worth 20k a year then you are going to need to be banking at least 25k a year...at LEAST!

It's no use whatsoever looking at what you turned over today, you have to look back and see what you've turned over in the last 12 months, and when you've done that, take off the running costs of your business.
And don't forget, your business also needs money left in for investment, upgrading your equipment, replacing your vehicle every 3 to 5 years and so on.

Take away that and then see what you are left with, and THATS your income.

Sleep easy children...

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

P®oPole™

  • Posts: 985
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2007, 12:07:30 pm »
Spot on Ian ;)

Think about this fellas, if it costs you £5000 a year to run your business thats including disiel, wear and tear on van and equipment, new poles, water production etc that works out at £416 a month divide that by the average 200 customer round and it will cost £2.08 per customer.

So the aveage ten pound customer minus tax and running costs = £6.17 :o :o Were's the big money in that then? were's the wage?  some customers dont understand what we need to earn to stay in business!!

ProPole

Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2007, 01:09:06 pm »
Good post Ian.

There are plenty of customers who understand the position we are in but there are plenty who think we can work for peanuts & remain in buisness.

Over the last year i have really stuck to my guns on my pricing & dont negotiate, my price is my price & i have seen a increase in my turnover & profit i like.

Ok, a few say no thanks but most still say yes, so i'm happy.

ProPole, nice calm post that makes sense, keep it up  ;D

Macc

newpy

  • Posts: 153
Re: How much should you be worth
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2007, 01:34:39 pm »
I agree with most of you! If you turnover 40k for example, i would say that 10k of that would be overheads, 20k wage, and 10k reinvestment or cashflow. Also how many one man operators can achieve this? including down time and holidays?
So to achieve this figure i would expect to work 4-4.5 days a week 6-7hr days. Your hourly rate is always going to fluctuate, with a a mix of domestic and commercial etc.