[ianharper]

guys

I noticed that many are losing interest in directories and for good reason.

I have spent £10k two years ago and last year dropped it to 3k but still did not get a 1:1 return which is all i expect.

My view on why directories arent working as well has they have done in the past is in one word "demand" how do i know this? as I have a maid service and use the same marketing and get a much higher response from. the difference id the demand between each service is different.

So how can you keep a marketing presents in directories and not lose money? Joe polish teaches a system called "Advert Expanding" you have all know about the consumer warning adverts. this is the idea. 

it works by you taking out a mammal amount off space in what ever media in this case directories and then expand your message in a place that is cheaper. in the consumer case it was a recorded message, but you can use the Internet, guides or any else you can think about.

why pay for space that does not give you a good ROI or say in newspapers that many that read will not have an interest in?

One way that you can use this is say, you where going to spend the 10K that i did would be to take smaller advert out in more directories. one reason that some carpet cleaners do better response rates in directories is that the amount of people receiving the directories, in cities it a much bigger area.

This year I will be using 0800 and 0845 numbers that i can track response with.

with respect to cleaners get feed up with directories and not going at all, is madness. they work to a point. so its just a mater of finding that point. don't just give up or the mistake that you made in overspending will be wasted. learn from it.

Dan Kennedy says that if you get a 1:1 return (money spent) that return and not response then you should dance in the streets. so if you are getting higher on frontend marketing then well done.

Why did i lose so much. it was down to what is called "remote std codes" these are phone numbers that look local but are diverted to any phone number you name. the first year i had to have my address in and prospect just did not full for it, and the second can only be down to a poor advert or demand?

next year i know for sure. the good thing is that my other contact and maid service advert paid for the loses. this is one very good reason if you are starting out to cover you expenses with cleaning contacts.
this way if they don't work you will still be in business to fight another day.

Respect

Ian Harper

[Mike Halliday]

 the idea that all you need is 1:1 return on advertising is the road to ruin  

just to clarify what 1;1 is, you spend £100 on a directory and you get £100 in business. this means you are actually working at a loss once all your business expenses' are paid.

Dan Kennedy is wrong if you only get 1:1 the only place you'll dance is the steps of the official receiver and it'll be the dance of the doomed

the best way to get a good return on income is to keep records where all your business is coming from and get rid of any non-payers and put the money into what is bringing the work in.

as an example I have just sent out 1000 sales letters If I had spent the same amount of money on leafleting I would have brought in 6 times as much work, so I'll never send sales letters again! and the daft thing is, i knew this would be true because every year I try sales letters and come to the same conclusion, I should have spent the money on leaflets.

Doesn't Joe polish say you should have 10 advertising mediums working at all times to bring in work, Why not chose the one that brings the most work in and throw all your marketing budget at that, it makes life very simple.

to end if you want a 5;1 return on your directory advert, just copy mine , it what I get (if not more) this year I've got the same advert in 3 directories

Mike

[*paul_moss]

Cant copy yours Mike as I only have 5 fingers   

[carpetguy]

C'MON Mike

You know what's really being referred to, regards 1;1........................or do you............or do some of you fail to grasp what marketing is all about.

There are a few on here, who underatand the true concept, of a 1:1 return, knowing that the hypothetical ( 1 ) will gain them another 2 - 4 clients.............IF UTILISED PROPERLY.

I'm pretty sure you work this way yourself Mike and fully understand the concept of, referrals.

Many don't and from the others who do, only about 20% will make use of their knowledge, that is up to them.

Meanwhile, the more astute, will work smarter and reap the rewards...................as the saying goes " you can take a horse to water, but can't make it drink "

[the red carpet]

Mikes right throw all your money at whatever works best, but on the same note dont put all your eggs in one basket.

For example, leaflets for me bring in more work than anything else.

But my regular leaflet guy has just fallen of his bike and done his knee in so hasnt been doing any and that has killed my phone calls the last couple of weeks. So i have decided to cancell my y/p and am gonna spend my money on leaflets but instead of using one person or firm to deliver i am gonna find 3-4 and break the leaflets up between them that way if theres ever a problem with one of them things should still run smoothly.

1 to 1 will kill you.

Think about it, how many of us are spending 50% of turnover on running costs?
If you are you need 2 to 1 just for your buisness to survive, and then what about you? whos gonna pay the mortgage and buy the shopping while you wait for all this repeat and referall work to come in?

3 to 1 or more or look for a different advertising medium

[ianharper]

guys

you have to look at things from a passive and active marketing. directories are passive and leaflets are active. plus the difference between frontend and backend marketing.

backend market will bring you much greater returns. selling to people that have done business with you is much easier than those that have not. every month you dont speak to past client you lose 10% of that relationship. thats why newsletters are so important.

in the USA at the moment they are talking in term of multi contacts each year. i have just gone from 13 to 25 each year. you want your name in front of them when they want cleaning services. plus in these days of hard floors and leather you need to be telling them that you clean other things apart form fabric upholstery and carpets.

Dan Kennedy is a multi millionaire and has made many millionaires. he is behind many big businesses marketing. the point is not to waste money. make your money work as hard as you can by watching your response and returns on your investment.

as carpetguy says a referral program, five around, or any whats call borrowed trust program in place will increase the returns.

respect

ian harper

[Mike Halliday]

1:1 means 1:1 any future work is pie in the sky until it comes in.

I'd rather get 5:1 and get referals from those customers, at least  i know I'm on top rather than hope they return or recomend me to a friend.

mike

[Paul_Ashworth]

Mike,
What do you think you need in a directory add to Increase your response rate to 5:1

[ianharper]

btw

be very careful when the yellow pages rep quotes you response rates. with their new 0845 system they will be quote to you how often other cleaners phone rings each month. don't forget how many sales calls you get each month from business that rent out your details from yellow pages database.

the only number that maters is returns on investment (ROI) money in the bank not response rates that yellow pages will quote. its a very cleaver selling idea.

[Matt Lindus]

Its like the Irish man who stays out all night.... Paddy 'O' Furniture.

Matt

[Paul_Ashworth]

well said Ian, i intially fell for it and was going to have an 0845 no but after talking to many freinds who said i would'nt ring an 0845 number i changed my mind as i ask nearly all my callers how they have heard about us.

[the red carpet]

Ian at 25 contacts a year that means your postage costs are at least £5.75 per client per year
thats without printing or envelopes, and we all know no matter how great a job we do they wont all use us again.

So is this backend marketing really any cheaper than just looking for new clients?

New clients from leaflets cost me around £6.70 each response isnt as good this time of year so i am paying £13.41

But usually £6.70

Dosent it make more sense to spend £6.70 on a new client who has even more friends and relatives to send your way
Than spend £5.75+ chasing a old one that might or might not come back

After all if we do a good job you would think they would keep the number anyway, and if the didnt wouldnt a yearly reminder letter or a christmas card etc be enough to put you back in front of them?

Plus if you work a small area and send enough leaflets all your old clients will keep getting your flyer now and then anyway

[Mike Halliday]

 Red you posted as i was typing but you are making the same piont as me but without all my waffle. so I've added this bit 

......................................................................................................................................................

I spent a lot of my late 20s to early 30s working in various sales jobs ( I thought sales would lead to riches & happiness ) I sold double glazing, cars, maintenance chemicals, etc etc.

often I was told to trawl through the old files and look for orphan customers ( customers who had been previously sold to by a departed salesmen)  to contact.

I was constantly told that its easier to sell to (& keep) an old customer than it is to gain a new one. In double glazing we were told it cost £500 to get a new customer through the door, but getting an existing customer to buy again cost £75. so as you can see it is cheaper to keep old customers than try and get new ones.

in high value sales this is true but we cannot use the same theory with carpet cleaning, if you spend all your marketing money selling to your existing client base you will not get the same response as if you used that money gaining new customers especially when used with marketing you know will work.

I have many times spent over a £100 sending out:

 reminder cards,

thank-you letter,

next door letters,

Easter cards,

Xmas cards etc..etc.etc

all to existing customers IT NEVER BRING IN MORE WORK THAN IF I HAD USED THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY ON FRESH MARKETING.

 carpet cleaners have said to me, " i sent out 200 reminder cards and got loads of work from the them" now this is true but how many of these customers would have contacted him even if they hadn't received a reminder card? I've stopped mailing out all the stuff I used to send out, and I still get old customers ringing me and recommending me to the their family and friend.

We all need to take a logical look at our marketing and put a price on it ( including the amount of time used ) and we need to stop believing everything we read, just because its works for car sales doesn't mean it will work for carpet cleaning.

  befere spending hours printing out all them letters and buying all those stamps ASK YOURSELF CAN THIS MONEY BE SPENT MORE EFFECTIVELY.

Mike

[the red carpet]

This topic has got me thinking
and the win win situation has got to be, and this is something i know Mikes spoke of before
Narrow down where you want to work
And then attack that area religiously with leaflets
Everytime they go out you will pick up new work, and you will be staying in front of all your current clients at the same time so you will kill two birds with one stone.

You will be working in the same areas all the time and your van making a load of racket at 9am on a saturday morning on mrs smiths neighbours drive will remind her you are about far more than any newsletter or leaflet

And all your clients will be local to each other meaning you will spend less time driving and more time cleaning which will earn you more money.

This is now my new plan, no more reminder letters or postcards
Im gonna up the ammount of leaflets i do and concentrate them on a smaller area
And the only other form of advertising i am gonna use is googles addwords in the slow times and once it gets busy switch it off again as allthough it brings in great leads they are to far apart for my liking i spent 2 hours driving to and from a job yesterday

[Buster Ingram]

Good post Mike and food for thought, touching on the reminder cards though Mike they do work well if you prime the client before hand when your there cleaning their carpets by answering their question on when do you think it will need cleaning again by saying don't worry I'll send you a reminder card when its due!

[FibreTech]

People have short term memories, lose cards with your number on and only clean when things start to look dirty again. A christmas card is not enough, a reminder card is not enough, newsletters do work but so do letters espically aimed at giving your old clients some added benefit if they book again.
Dan Kennedy is NOT WRONG 1:1 return is fantastic only if you really look after the client in the first place. Mike Halliday is NOT Wrong either, you keep doing what works for you. Combine the newsletters,  reminder cards yp ads and leaflets aimed at selective clients and you should be having a constant flow of work.
You dont always have to put an offer in your newsletters if you feel uncomfortable give them information about anything as long as it is good reading but offers do spark a response to people who will wait till they are ready to clean trouble is you dont always know what will trigger there call to action. The only way is to test.

[the red carpet]

Ian iv just had a look at your new website and it looks good

Is there a catch to your price promise?

Do you really give them a hire machine to use free? if you do i take it theres some sort of theory behind it why did you decide to do this?

It sounds like a really good idea to me, it does set you apart as not just being the typical salesman trying to fleece them out of money and makes you look a far more credible firm.

What if somebody breaks the machine

[Buster Ingram]

Red I did what your saying years ago and boy did it cut my over heads, I found the time spent in traffic was better used cleaning carpets.
A further note on priming the client for their next clean is to say when cleaning for the first time for them is now that your carpets nice and clean all I have to do in the future is maintain it, shell we say this time next year, then shut up and let then answer !!!!!

[Mike Halliday]

Don't forget if you want to dominate an area with mass leafleting (repeated every month) tell every carpet cleaner in your area,

say " Hi Bill, hows business? I'm putting out 20,000 leaflets every month in 'anytown' "

do you think he is going to target that area with leaflets?  when he knows your beating it to death....  NOT A CHANCE!!!  then you stop everyone else going their .

[carpetguy]

Dan

You have shown yourself to be a very active and intelligent marketer, from the leaflets you posted and your general comments, but you could be missing out, if you don't simply ask for referrals, on completing each job.

Why wait for a year, or even six months, when you can get referrals every day of the week, just by asking.

Although I'm gradually backing out of this business, I don't advertise, but I've just had the busiest January, ever and February has been well up on average.................without advertising, but not without marketing, which was done in the past, but continues to supply work, years later.

This is the reality of marketing, as opposed to advertising and I have been very lazy in my marketing efforts.