[the red carpet]

Hi all, do any of you know as self employed people are we entitled to any help if we are on low income?

I have just got my first years accounts back and according to that from september 2005 till aprill 2006
i didnt make a penny i actually lost £10

So if thats not a low income i dont know what is

with this being my sole income would i not be eligible for

housing benifitt? working tax credits? income support?

[darrenlee1]

to get to this figure had you purchased a lot of equipment
i have heard of a website where you can find out will dig it for you
and post later

darren

[Ken Wainwright]

Hi Red

I presume that your accountant explained to you that, as a Self Employed person, you don't have a wage or salary. Instead, you make drawings from your profits. You also make capital purchases from your profits.

I suspect that you did actually make a profit, took some drawings, purchased some kit and this left a deficit on your books at the end of the year of £10.

Of course, I could have totally mis-read your post and presumed too much from the limited information available.

Not wishing to promote other forums, but I did an article a few years ago for the NCCA about my own real world overheads. I posted this last year on the another forum site in the new startup section, titled something like The cost of being in business, with some figures from my own accounts. It's not a realistic set of figures for most because I'm a low overhead business with almost nil advertising costs, and the bottom line may prove to be startling, but if there's enough interest, I could be persuaded to post it here too.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[the red carpet]

my tax return reads

income     £7,428

small tools and materials          £1,781
use of premises                           £90
motor expenses                          £2,926
advertising                                  £1,508
postage printing and stationary £363
telephone                                    £190
repairs and renewals                  £212
accountancy                                £294
protective clothing                       £73

Expenses                          £7,438

net loss for the year           £10

[craigp]

Dan,

is that from starting in business?

if it is, thats quiet normal to make nothing or just break even.

[darrenlee1]

hes the site i told you about

http://www.entitledto.co.uk/default.aspx?cid=8acc69bd-f137-40e2-b56d-e32d1d4b796a

but not wanting to sound funny but lookin at your figures you post id pack in, what did you live on the year.
so did you not intoduce a van or car into the buisness so you took no drawings at all, what ken has said is spot on and in the case of  tax credits ect they will want your drawnings for year

[Ken Wainwright]

Obviously I stand corrected, and apologise for my presumptions.

However, you haven't starved to death over the past year so there must be other income into the household. This would need to be considered when claiming any form of benefit or relief.

It's most unlikely that any benefit would be backdated, but you could try.

Being less than £15K turnover, you may be eligible for the simple book keeping requirements for the tax man (I don't know what this is called, but my wife used to use it some years ago).  You only present your turnover total figure, overheads total figures to the tax man, no breakdown, no accounts and you are assessed on that.  My wife used to take her figures in person to the local tax office and they were as good as gold and told her her tax liability there and then.  No charge, no accountants fees.  You still have to fill in the Self Assessment, but they even helped her with that!

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[the red carpet]

these are my first year figures starting from nothing, as im sure most of us do i spent money on usless advertising that didnt work and brought a whole bunch stuff that i didnt need that just ends up sitting in the shed.

but hopefully iv learnt from my mistakes

As for what i lived on it started of with savings and ended up loans and credit cards to survive on over this period im afaid
i then started doing quite well and now things are slacking again and im struggling, im just hoping its down to the time of year because i couldnt do more if i tried

[the red carpet]

MY TURNOVER

Sep 05   £431
0ct 05    £409
Nov 05   £1127
Dec 05   £1103
Jan 06   £1482
Feb 06   £1089 
Mar 06   £1507
Apr 06   £1818
May 06  £1855.50
Jun 06   £2184
Jul 06    £2756
Aug 06  £4818.80
Sep 06  £4243.20
Oct 06   £2459.75
Nov 06  £4229.20
Dec 06  £3240.16
Jan 07  £2221.06

I dont know wether to be worried that things seem to be slowing down the last few months?
or happy that every single month is up on the previous year?

for those who have been at it a while how do i seem to be doing?

[jasonl]

RED... Iwould say you need to ramp up your advertising spend by about 5 times what itis to make a decent living!

[jasonl]

I see, your tax rturn was for only a part year, so you must have had other taxable income for the year, were you in a job on paye, if so you can get a rebate on what you paid via paye

[Mike Halliday]

he could have been living off personal savings during the year or perhaps he has been helped out by his parents

you can claim housing & rates benefits, you can be exempt from paying Nat ins' and still be credited with them for pension & unemployment benefits if you are eligible for  benefits you can also get free prescriptions

Mike

[darrenlee1]

for those who have been at it a while how do i seem to be doing?

only you can answer this too much to take in to account.
how much you need to live on a month or year,
how many hours you having to work for that income,
are you having to spend vast amounts on marketing to create the income you need,
always seen buisness a bit like a see saw its getting the balance right for your own situation.

my case family, income , work
but i dont have large overheads and a dont have a big mortgage
 lookin at the last years figures you posted looks like you had a big increase 06 to 07
so you doing something right or are you spending more on adverts ect
i wish you well and hope it works for you

darren

[Ken Wainwright]

Red

From your monthly figures, it looks like you are on course for a turnover in excess of £30k for the current financial year. Well done.

If you're advertising costs aren't prohibitive, you've probably made a profit in the area of £20k which is in the ball park of the average national industrial wage. But from that you need to deduct your capital purchases.  It would appear to me that you are moving in the right direction.

Yes, as you are probably by now well aware, it is a quiet time of year and your marketing startegy needs to take that into account. Also, control your cash flow. Pre-Christmas is good. Post Christmas can be poor. Watch your drawings at these times, especially when buying Chrissy presents and drinks

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[carpetguy]

Dan

When I started carpet cleaning, in 1984, my turnover, for year one, was around £8000, with set up and other costs, of about £3000.

In todays figures, that equates to, around £24000 and £9000 net, at least.

In order to achieve this, I purchase two smallish machines, used a number of different products , simply trial and error, and placed a small advert, incredibly small, about 1 1/4 inches square, honest !!!

At that time, we were only charging £15 for the first carpet and £24 for suites.

What we did correctly.............I believe...........was start with a low outlay and we were prepared to trial and LEARN and keep learning, if you rush headlong, into anything, you are gambling...............I don't gamble.

[Liahona]

Red, long time no talk too.  Your figures seam ok on the whole especially as time has gone by.  My first year was a loss of just about £35,000 but this was done on purpose as it will roll over to the next year so with the way I run the business my pay out in taxes shouldnt be too much if anything at all for I am hoping a couple of years.  Give me a bell if you want to and I will try to help you out with attracting new clients.  There are ways in getting them that doesnt cost anything at all.  I have never paid for any type of advertising nor will I.  Having said it will cost you nothing, it will cost you time and effort but then they should be for free anyway when it is for yourself.  Best, Dave.

[John Kelly]

Red as people have said your figures don't look too bad. Obviously your first post was in relation to the year upto April 2006. Your current years figures look like you are going to have a profit of over 20k. Now what you need to do is keep up your avertising but also it is imperative that you market as much as possible to the clients that have already giving you that 30k plus turnover.

[spindle]

hey red

i think that u r doing ok...

but luckily i have not had to spend that much on advertising....

when i started ............

i bought a ninja...which i have still and have had it regularly serviced, a  set of hoses and bag ...bought a duo...
tried and tested few different chemicals......printed my own leaflets.....
did a course at prochem...informative..but for me  there was something lacking
i was dozing off during one lectures and i wasnt the only 1. .some one was snoring!

my wife runs a cleaning business and i get a lot of referals from her customers and estate agents
word of mouth is also a very good medium!!
tried y/p........didnt work for me
did lealets ..posted them....and you will suprised how long people keep them
i have done a few different leaflets....and i always smile when someone has the first leaflet that i posted!

although there is a c/c near me and he posts every other month........
but i wonder if this is counter-productive.........
maybe he will be at the forefront of peoples minds
or will they see it as a piece of regular junk mail that they have to pick up and recycle?

as for my commercial work......i clean a few private members clubs 2/3 times a year thats ? per year from each club
.i am on personal terms with the mangers! but that doesnt mean i over charge..
i give a fair price and do a great job!
 i am on call for them .
i clean their house/flat and build that into the cost of the club
SOMETIMES  IT IS WHO YOU KNOW
NOT WHAT YOU KNOW!!


i think that it is something you have to work at it to make it grow......
too many people give up after the first year......completing the first year will be the hardest bit!!!

good luck....in your 2nd year!!

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Red,

You have been very honest and an excellent contributor to the forum.

From your figures you have established a reasonable turnover but are obviously spending a lot on advertising.

I would suggest leaflets have been your most successful route so far and are likely to continue as such, adwords are o.k but expensive.As you are aware, my sites rank highly so I do not need to pay , this is obviously your goal but difficult in Essex because there are quite a lot of us seeking the same including the London boys.

I established my business with leaflets , there will always be a route here because it is difficult so most give up when the going gets tough.

The other thing which has come accross is how much you have spent on sundry equipment and chemicals, suppliers will tempt you but CC is a simple business and there really is no need for half the stuff thsy push at least in the early days.

This equally applies to chemicals , where sourcing basic chemicals , like solvents  saves loads of money on suppliers repackaged products.

Keep going , you will get there !

Cheers

Doug

[John Kelly]

The franchises (which are very succesfull) state that you should spend 25% of your turnover to become established then 10% to stand still.
On that basis you should be spending 7.5k this year on marketing.