[pdl]

Just recently lost three tenders that we have submitted for build clean work at three different sites cos we were too expensive. One quote we were told was 25% over the winning bid.

The prices we submitted,we thought, were very competitive. I have a feeling another "FIRM" who is paying cash in hand has the work.

Has anyone done any build clean work for Bellway Homes , if so, what sort or general prices were you charging?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[martin19842]

hi there

i know that they are a price driven organisation, someone i know is doing a site for them, and the prices are very tight.

apparently they appreciate that they need to pay more to get the better quality service, but just arent prepared to do it.

regards

martin

[J. Deans]

Beware!

Tendered for them 2 years ago - heard nothing back - until last September.
The site we tendered for called us, in urgent need of 27 Sparkle Cleans in 2 days! Their cleaners had let them down!  ....?

Following confirmation by fax that they would pay our original tender prices, we pulled out all the stops - extra staff, reworking our schedule etc. Worked all through the weekend.

The problem arose after we told them that the standard of the previous cleans was so low that we did not consider them to be Sparkle Cleans. "No problem" says the site manager: "Just give me your paperwork and I'll sign it to authourise them as Build Cleans.

On completion of the cleans - you guesses it! - he refused to sign!

They wanted more cleans doing, but we walked off the site and put our invoice in as for the Build Cleans without his signiture.

They totaly ignored us for two months - until they got the County Court Summons! Then, they paid in full!

The warning here is: By all means work for them - but be very, very carefull.
PS.
And watch out for a combination of QS called Steve and Site Manager called Steve! (Can't give out their full names - obviously)

Good luck...

[pdl]

Thanks for the info,

You have confirmed what we already thought.  We do provide a quality service and for that service we require a quality rate.  the old addage " pay peanuts, get monkeys".

The next time they come begging at short notice we will charge a premium rate and get an order before work on site begins.

This is not the first time I have heard that they do not honour verbal agreements, I also encourage my Operations manager to get ALL orders in writing, saves having to go to the small claims court.

[Andy Foster]

Hi

I have done some brick cleaning work for them and have to say that they have been great with me, however, I did do the work as a subby for a maintenance firm who does work for them.

They paid the price I asked, but I know that they were pushed for someone who could do it quickly  and although they were very happy with the results I gave them, I have not had any more work from them to date as they pay a guy who is semi retired to do it for almost 2/3rds of the price I charge.

The results he gets are not great (I saw his work on one of the sites I was on) but they must feel that it is fine for their customers I guess.

Yer gets what yer pays for!!!

[Seers]

Hi,

We do a great deal of work for Bellway. Although on a lot of their sites they are very price conscious, on a few when they know the project may require more "experienced" contractors they are prepared to pay a premium.

Although they may not always pay as well as other developers the volume of work we receive from them gives us a platfom to work from.

When it comes to delayed payments etc that usually depends on individual site managers and QS's rather than a company wide attitude.

Cheers,

Huw.

[Cleaning Resource]

Hi my stepmums a quantity surveyor for bellway, she is always doing anything she can to prevent paying the full amount to any of the subbies, cos she gets a bigger bonus....................

but then again all qs`s are the same

[Timmy Boy]

Hi PDL
We are doing build cleans for Bellway & I've got to tell you that if you want the work you will only just break even on it. The only reason I am sticking it out is so I can use them as a reference to get onto tenders for other builders. If you already have contracts you can reference from I suggest you give up on Bellway as you will not make any money doing their work (I'll give you a clue on prices- a 4 bed detached (large) is priced at well below £200.00 & sparkles are under £50.00 on the same house type. Bear in mind Bellways are one of the most profitable builders in the country at the moment - I wonder why?
Regards
Tim

[pdl]

Thanks Tim,

I had a funny feeling this was the case, I'm not looking for references as we already work for Charles Church, Bovis, Laings, Haslem Homes, Wimpy but to name a few.  We did do some work for them a couple of years ago and you are right, hardly any profit in it, until the day they get desperate.

Did three sparkles for them the other week and charged £365 cos their regular people did'nt turn up after being given 8 days notice.

[Andy Foster]

Well, after saying I had not had any more work off them, they called me Friday because their regular guy wasn't able to do a rush job for them... so have been there today and earning what I should.

Don't mind being the 'stand-in guy' if it means I get proper money for it.


Andy

[J. Deans]

Thanks Tim,

I had a funny feeling this was the case, I'm not looking for references as we already work for Charles Church, Bovis, Laings, Haslem Homes, Wimpy but to name a few. We did do some work for them a couple of years ago and you are right, hardly any profit in it, until the day they get desperate.

Did three sparkles for them the other week and charged £365 cos their regular people did'nt turn up after being given 8 days notice.

Hey,

Neither wonder they pay so low on their contracts if you charge them that much when they are desperate! (which they often seem to be)

We would ony charge £80.00 for a 6 bed 3 floor house on a sparkle!
(then again, thats on contract - so we will have done the two previous cleans to a very high standard)

[martin19842]

hi there

if u relate this subject to another on here of profit margin levels, then i think you will see, that the build clean market produces lower percentage profits.

what annoys me about the domestic construction market is this.

a house sells for say 240,000 a third is land, third build cost and a third profit, thats an industry guide line.

the house builders, subscribe to the nhbc, who send out a customer satisfaction survey, to all new home owners, and the mst important question on the survey is

WAS YOUR HOME READY AND CLEAN??

that question scores more highly than any other on the questionnaire, and the answer is either YES or NO

it doesnt segregate, whether the property was build finished, or clean.

the developer is fighting with all other developers to achieve better scores all the time, and infact the government, have said that if the developers dont deliver a better product, then at the end of a trial period they will step in to investigate it.

SO

whilst the developer sees the finished product as the most important point, and the fact that the property needs to be clean

the QS, and the purchasing department, still carry on nailing everybody into the ground, and site agents, still see the cleaners as generally unskilled labour, who can clean a property in no time at all.


Its about time that the customer started to realise that if they paid more money they will receive a better finish, and more happier home buyerws.

the likelyhood of that happening-- no time soon.

regards

martin

[Seers]

Hi,

I must agree with martin about the importance developers place on the NHBC satisfaction survey. It seems like the site manager for a development will find himself in so much hot water over whether he gets a tick in the "yes my new apartment was lovely and clean throughout" box that I know a few managers who will do almost anything to persuade the client to tick yes.

When a plot gets handed over developers insist on the highest of standards, it's just a shame that it is usually the case that they are not really prepared to pay good money for it.

The NHBC questionnaires for each site help makeup how different new build sites win the Pride in the Job Awards etc.

P.S. Hope you received the email I sent you a couple of weeks ago Martin

Cheers,

Huw.

[J. Deans]

In agreement with all of the above.

It is with some pride that we can honestly state: After cleaning more than 500 houses in 2 years (from build to sparkle) we have never been told that a new home owner has complained about cleanliness when they moved in!

It is of course possible that a complaint was never passed on to us - but unlikely.

Apart from Bellway, as mentioned above, we have been very lucky with our site managers, sales people and the after-care teams. We have developed a good working relationship, where problems are solved early on - long before the purchaser gets involved.

We take the greatest pride in our work. In some ways, money is a secondary issue (meaning, we tender to make a 30% profit and once the contract is signed, why worry about it? Quality now becomes the priority)

Quality goes a long way to securing your next contract with a developer!

[j.v. price ltd]

We have just taken on a south east contract with Fairview New Homes and well let me say they want everything for nothing.

It all started with a phone call help us out on this one as the last cleaners have been thrown of site but we cant change the budget and we will give you lots of work, so you pull out all the stops. they are over the moon within a week they wanted us to do 5 sites so you go round price hem all up and they all look as bad as the first one, give them the quotes and they say that twice as much as the old cleaners, we say well thats cause they weren't cleaning anything and you got rid of them, so then do these for the same as the old ones and we will make it up on the budgets for the new sites....

As you can excpect same old story on the new sites THEY WANT EVERTHING FOR NOTHING

Charlie

[pdl]

Make up on the new sites!!!! Yea right!!!!