[bettakleen]

Of those of you working in the domestic cleaning market, how many of you actually employ cleaners as permenent members of staff/payroll, as opposed to using "self employed" cleaners (as per "Selclene" "Maid 2 Clean" etc) who take their pay as cash from your clients,with you billing your client the remainder as an agency "fee"?

I have always preferred emplying staff on a PAYE basis but am beginning to wonder if I would be better off going the other route. I would be interested to know how other companies work. In my mind the obvious advantages/disadvantages are as follows:


PAYE

Pros
Cleaners are on permenant contract, as such are bound to you contractually (not that they always adhere to that!!!)
Cleaners more likely to stick with it seeing it as a proper job rather than cash in hand spare time money
Customers only have to pay one bill, rather than mess around with cash

Cons
Difficult to unload unsatisfactory cleaners - employment law offers them protection
Liability for employers NI, holiday and maternity pay
As business builds VAT threshold can be broken, increasing charge to customer


SELF EMPLOYED

Pros
Can easily unload useless cleaners!
No NI, holiday, maternity pay liability
Takes (much) longer to reach VAT threshold

Cons
Cleaner sees position as extra money job, not serious employment - can leave without notice (mind you, so can an employed cleaner if they really want...!)
Customer has to leave cash each clean


What thoughts do others have on the two set-ups - seems more and more companies (including the big franchises) are going the self-employed cleaner route, mainly it would seem to cut out the red tape of VAT, NI, PAYE,  benefits pay, etc, etc.

Any feedback appreciated...

[chosker]

We have two companies, one employs and the other uses self employed cleaners. You are right there are advantages and disadvantages to both. The main advantage with NOT employing is there is a lot less paperwork to do! This is actually a very big advantage if you have 800 clients and 300 cleaners!  The big disadvantage is that the cleaning company is less in control of the actual work and cannot be seen as telling the self employed cleaners what to do. You have to be careful with the wording of everything and cannot be seen as directing the cleaners in any way whilst actually sort of directing them, if that makes any sense!

Overall I would advise to keep the cleaners employed. It is a lot more work but the Inland revenue will have much less reasons to come nosing.

Hope that helps some!

[Jan K]

not only that but it is actually ILLEGAL to to sub contract to self employed cleaners if they are working for the same client on the same day each visit. they are then employed and should be treated as so, and i don't think the rules surrounding this have changed since i first carried out my research 4 yrs ago. if thr inland revenue cotton on to 'agencies' with 'self-employed' cleaners you could be in big trouble   

[jasonl]

not only that but it is actually ILLEGAL to to sub contract to self employed cleaners if they are working for the same client on the same day each visit. they are then employed and should be treated as so, and i don't think the rules surrounding this have changed since i first carried out my research 4 yrs ago. if thr inland revenue cotton on to 'agencies' with 'self-employed' cleaners you could be in big trouble   

WILLbe i big trouble

[Jan K]

i rephrase that WILL be in big trouble, is it worth it?

[dawnwallis]

I have been having this dilemma myself so good to see feedback. Am only just starting out and am finding this whole thing a bit daunting.  I allow my cleaners to choose their own hours and then i work jobs round them. i find that they let me down less then...so far i have taken them as self employed but should i be employing them? am very confused!!

[chosker]

Yeah, i woudn't advise the self-employed route particualarly, unless for one-offs and spring cleans where its probably the better way to go. If self-employing for spring cleans they must provide their own products and equipment and must also dictate their own rates of pay.

You can get special dispensation from the Inland Revenue for other self-employed cleaners. If you do this however, they are more likely to look into your accounts etc more regularly and will scrutinise everything. Not really advisable for the sake of hassle!

[Jan K]

I employ ALL my cleaners but allow them to choose their hours and DON'T insist they take jobs. One of my girls, who is also my friend, has been with me for 3 years. I havent had one leave me yet because they were unhappy, other circumstances dictated them leaving and i have only ever had to sack 1 because she was usless 

[kleen4u]

Many of the big franchises use cleaners on a "self employed basis" (Maid 2 Clean, Selclene, etc ) even when they are sending the same cleaner to the same property each week, etc.  If it is illegal, how do the "big boys" get away with it. Selclene are one of the biggest and most respected names in domestic celaning

[Jan K]

i beg to differ, i get quite a lot of clients due to the fact that selclene, down here at least, dont have as good a reputation as is expected 

[dustdees]

I have to arge with Jan K on this one, I get many a story concerning selcene and other agencies!!!!

We have a company in Reading, that has been running for around the ten year , and to be honest I don't know how he carries on, he doesn't interview his cleaners, he just askes then to start work the next day, no police checks, references etc!! I wouldn't allow them through my door either!!!

[Lesley J]

I also would like to know how selclene get away it, I have spoken to the tax office who have told me that if you take on someone who is self employed, you have to advise tax office of thier Nat ins No and date they started, and if they fail to pay their tax, that I would be liable to pay it. and Selclense have a very poor reputation around here. Lesley