[robbobon]

HI all,   Ive been traditional now for 22 years, I dont think i'll be changeing to wfp. ( water on a stick)          I have been regular cleaning now 20 villages with lots of customers still with me from 22 years ago. The thing is lots of you guys on here keep saying how good  wfp system is, but as I am very experianced in the trad way,  I never get complaints when I clean windows I clean all the sills and frames aswell as the panes of glass,  In  the villages where  I do my services on my round, customers tell me they have got rid off guys with the water on a stick because  water falls all over there walls and patio's, pavements, drives, you name it , the water goes everywhere, lots say they hate the way it pores all down there walls. Allso they dont like the way the hose pipe bashes there plant's around in there gardens, Ive had lot's off customers ask me to take on there house's  due to haveing to sack wfp guys.I dont think you can beat the good ol ladder way, One off my regulars told me he had to get rid off a guy with wfp because it was not cleaning his sills proper (leaving cob webs etc) one gentelman told me there was mores spots on his glass after he had his windows cleaned than before.                                          One village  that I call at  , I took on a full road( 25 houses) due too a guy with a wfp system not makeing the people who live there very happy.   All these window cleaners i'm talking about have sign written van's and look very pro I must admit but with the comment's I keep getting about wfp systems , it makes you wonder if they are that good? I was at work last week and a block off  flats I do, the warden there said she had a window cleaner for a while but he left spot's all over her flat windows. So what's the point in useing these expensive machine's if they dont do a 100% job. I my self have a signwritten van with two sets off real good ladders, with lots off buckets, plenty of scrim ,sqeegues ,scrapers , chamois leather's and smartly dressed , oh and a extending pole for arkward too get too windows.                                                            I do restaurants ,garages, schools,  manor houses, halls, doctor surgeries, blocks flats ,pubs ,private houses , council houses,farm houses, b&b's , doctors houses, factories,builders cleans, And every body is happy no complaints what so ever.   there is just one question i'm dieing to ask all the wfp guys out there, how do you get the splashes off paint off windows when they have just been painted by a decorator   for instance ,especial right near the putty area, on upper windows!  just a thought         love to hear from you guy's wfp may apply. 

[brett walker]

Hi there

can we hide this one from squeeky

you will be his new best mate

Brett

[Jake]

Robbobon

Like any trade, you get good and bad mate. I am sure you would get work off 'trad' w/cs if the work they turned out was crap!

Used correctly, wfp is good, with more than a few advantages over 'trad'. But if your happy cleaning windows the traditional way, and you work safely, then carry on.

On the point of water everywhere, do people come out after heavy rain and shake their fists at the sky ?

Can't comment on trailing hoses, we use a trolley system.

Use a 4" scraper (ettore champion?) after you soap up glass  when cleaning paint off glass


                  Regards...Jake

[brett walker]

I would say wfp is definately safer but trad is better for results as you are up close and personal and can see what your doing

wfp is just like anything else if you do it right you get good results just lately im coming accross customers that are against wfp because of the results this due to w/c not doing it right, which is making it harder for people like me to convince them.

But it seems to be the future all my customers love it and i dont get any complaints

regards

Brett.

[detec52]

You may need to check on the new ladder law's that came into place of April 06? apart from that i went over to water on a stick as you call it, and will never go back to ladders, 28 years in the game. Rob.

[cybersye]

paint left on windows aint my problem, thats the painters!, no excuse for sloppy workmanship they should make good.
I use wfp and do trad, whatever is best on individual jobs.
don't suppose you have much 4 th storey work in the villages you clean. Its a different story where I live hence wfp and thats where my best paying jobs are. Each to their own mate.
If your happy then why change, I wish I could have that amount of work without the need for wfp my start up costs would have been a fraction of what they were but needs must. good luck to ya
Simon

[dai]

Funny old world, I'v had new customers because they didn't like holes in their lawn,
Ladder marks on their walls, and they wanted the windows over the conservatory cleaned. Just goes to show, you can't please them all.
I still have my ladders on the van, so I can clean them however I like.
Of course without WFP, you haven't got that choice. Dai

[simbo]

if you have never used wfp "properly" you cannot comment, remember most of us do trad aswell if safe and you can get spectacular results wf if done properly. Like any tool it is only as good as the user
simbo

[brett walker]

WFP.... no more broken tiles

gives customer their privacy


brett.

[Easyclean Windows]

ok so what about window cleaners who cant clean properly with a squeeggee...streaks left smears etc etc wfp does work as long as its in the right hands just like someone who uses a squeegge properlly. I have cleaned 400 customers windows for the last 4 years every month by wfp and not one cancellation.Old windows with putty well you just wouldnt do with wfp just like you wouldnt use a 12" squeeggee on lead glass windows.I have just finished cleaning 40 flats every friday for the last 5 months for Barrett Homes and guess what the results are that good they now want me to clean the next phase. I aslo clean a 5million pound house for a former F1 race team principle and guess what im still doing them 3 years later with wfp and they would never NEVER go back to traditional because of the results.  My biggest customer is Kraft Foods who make mellow birds coffee etc i clean with a wfp upto 80 on some parts and have been doing so for the last 2 years oh guess what will never have another cherry picker and squeeggee again. Would i have wanted to be a window cleaner this week in all the wind.....nope one because my insurance company would never have paid out and secondly my common knowledge would have told me not too. So wfp window cleaning does worl else people like Tucker Pole Systems who have been using this equipment for the last 40 years wouldnt still be in business now.

you say you do blocks of flats how high because i know for a fact you wouldnt be able to get insurance using a ladder over the first floor??? unless you dont have insurance then its down to the householder / commercial customer to pay you if you injure yourself on their property.And given the people i have spoken to regarding health and safety the customers you have cant have any regards for health and safety if your cleaning schoold etc from a ladder as WAHD does state you have to show in your risk assesment that you cant provide another option than to use a ladder.Th schools i clean WOULD NEVER let me clean their windows of a ladder

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

i had one customer this morning who ask my son to be careful with the small pointer ladder so as not to ruin her flower bed at the bottom of her front bay window, to which i replied "rather than put the ladder there i can do them with my WATER ON A STICK THINGY"
to which she replied "oh yes please"

[H h20]

robbobon,
A bad workman always blames his tools,
A bad window cleaner no matter what tools he uses,shammy,scrim,pad and blade,wfp etc, will do a bad job
I have been window cleaning for over 18 years and been using wfp for nearly 2 years i still do alot of pad and blade work and have no problems with any of my work weather i use wfp or not, i just don`t use ladders anymore,
as for the paint mark left by painters etc blame them they left it just like blame the bad window cleaner for leaving spots and streaks,
don`t knock it until you have tried it,if you are as good as you say you are what`s the problem,
Gaz

ps what do your customers do when it`s raining do they bring all the outside in or cover it all up with tarporlin sheets?

[Ian_Giles]

I've little to add to what has already been written above...

Paint spots, cement, putty, silicone and so on can only really be dealt with up close and personal, easy enough on ground floor stuff of course, but upstairs it has to be done off a ladder.
As I refuse now to work directly off a ladder then that work does not get done, and even when I was on a ladder, if I had to knife of paint and the like I ALWAYS charged extra, that isn't normal weathering so I charge for cleaning it off!

But as all the others have said, results depend upon the skill and experience of the window cleaner, those that believe there is no skill in using WFP are deluding themselves.

Ian

[poleman]

water falls all over there walls

So what happens when it rains :

hose pipe bashes there plant's around in there gardens

If a garden is not suited to having a hose! then a back pack is the way to go

one question i'm dieing to ask all the wfp guys out there, how do you get the splashes off paint off windows when

How often do you get this on normal every day window cleaning! well its not happen to me in 20 years of window cleaning  

it makes you wonder if they are that good?

WFP systems ARE a industry standard tool of the trade, I have had one complaint BUT then customers complained BEFORE WFP 

 

[DaveBrown]

HI all,   Ive been traditional now for 22 years, I dont think i'll be changeing to wfp. ( water on a stick)        

Good! When the HSE enforce the WAHR this year, when all the pro's have had chance to buy their new equipment that conforms to the new LAW, then I shall be pleased to take over your work for you when you go out of business

[Ian_Giles]

Steady with the baiting guys, try and keep your replies pertinant...

Ian

[david68]

When i change to wfp my customers where glad it was safer for me.
If i was getting negatives of my system then i would be worried and return to trad. But i still get my cuppa of them and a than you...?
So for now wfp......

Dave

[KarlJones]

I think by now most people have a rough idea of the pro's and con's between the two methods. 

Though,  unlike the original poster I am a "totally wet behind the ears traditional"  without the cash to spare for a WFP.  So I thought I would sort of balance this whole debate towards my side a bit.

I am currently canvassing for work, and much fun it is too.  But I must admit I am astonished at how many times I have looked and thought to myself "can't do that with my ladder".  Now bare in mind I have all the time in the world when I go to clean, I am not exactly rushing to fit them all in.  So if anyone has the time to set up a ladder properly including tieing it to something secure then it is me.  I would consider my self safe and pretty fine with heights and not very scared of falling.  It is just something you can not do, at all, it has nothing to do with ladder safety,  A ladder can be perfectly safe, it just impossible to do some jobs.   I also seem to be getting a few leaded windows of the stick on variety, something I am sure WFP is at home with.  Also a load of conservatorys with those big roofs I seem to come across which I could do but would take up a right chunk of my time also.

However, I am going to get a trolley (actually I am probably going to make one mostly from bits found in a scrap yard if it is possible)  If needs be I will make my own poles and brushes.  It is not matter of desire, it is a matter of need.   Not only will this enable me to do work that I can not do it will also speed some jobs up.

I must admit, I do feel a bit like the fella on D.A. Services sig file when I read about people buying into huge systems that frankly they do not need,  but I can understand the safety aspect makes some want to just wave goodbye to the ladder. 

To me, it should not be a question of "Should I get a WFP?" it should be a question of "How big a system should I invest in?"  because lets be honest, a ladder just isn't upto the job in many cases.  But I am stil going to be lifting the ladder for quite a while, its a financial thing more than anything.
(and I live in a ground floor flat and a big WFP system would be a pain)

[brett walker]

some of my 3 storey houses are 10 quid each thats 3 windows and a door at the front side window and 4 windows and a door at the back, good priced

A few weeks ago a window cleaner pulls up next door does exactly the same 3 storey house using ladders gets talking to him nice bloke hes charging for the same house 17 quid as she wants it done trad.  She had it cleaned wfp before but she didnt like the results so she would sooner pay 7 quid more

So wfp must have been used poorly :

But what was this chap doing 3rd storey work off ladders for? as he had a wfp set up, he should have shown her how to get good results

you cant win them all

Brett

[robbobon]

ok Thanks guy's intresting stuff!