[D woods]

I have to agree that a lot of English workers are lazy. All the Polish workers I
have met in London seem hard working, polite and punctual.

I would not blame anyone for employing them. But I think we are going to have big problems in the UK with hundreds of thousands of unemployed English
workers.

[pdl]

Seanmcshane,

I employ 14 polish workers and guess wot, I pay then exactly the same as all my other English employees, so my wage bill stays exactly the same, in fact I have increased my turnover because I have more people doing more work, therefore, more hours worked = more profit

Simple Mathmatics

Increase your turnover + the people to do the job + reliability + efficiency = £££££££

[seanmcshane]

that is fantastic and how it should be...as I suggested!!
So now, you can sit comfortably in the knowledge that the reason you have employed the people you have employed is because of the qualities they bring to the workplace in terms of suitability, experience, reliability, punctuality etc etc.
A recruitment process that is open to all, pays the correct industry rate and employs the best candidates regardless of nationality...but is NOT a process designed to increase profits for the employer.

Nice move and good luck to you and your employees.

[Art]

when will someone have the courage to expose this myth that poles and other eastern europeans do not claim benefits, there are 55,000 poles claiming tax credits for their kids in poland. yes they are perfectly entitled to claim, why not? employers are taking advantage by setting up low wage businesses to undercut  legitimate businesses, they use the tax credit system to supplement their employees hourly rate, in the end its the tax payer who subsidizes these employers. they make increased profits while employees can't get a decent hourly rate, doe's anyone really care?

Ble ble ble...I'll tell you guys something. I'm in the cleaning bussiness for over 7 years ..I had company in USA and UK and I'll never hire usa or british worker. Most of them are lazy and not care about job. I always will hire easter european specially Polish people . I know they came to work I know  they to afraid to lose their jobs. THEY CARE !! AND THIS IS IMPORTANT IN THIS BUSSINESS. I know that i don't have to woke up 5 morning to cover work because Polish worker never call sick ( exept really emergency ) .

I hope noone from the race relations board has read what you've just stated above.

All statements like that are going to do is turn people against Polish people

[aderyn06]

so you personally know most of the British workforce WOW

I have no objection to Poles coming here as long as they work and pay into the system, but it is very wrong to generalise.

[pdl]

 

[window pain]

when will someone have the courage to expose this myth that poles and other eastern europeans do not claim benefits, there are 55,000 poles claiming tax credits for their kids in poland. yes they are perfectly entitled to claim, why not? employers are taking advantage by setting up low wage businesses to undercut  legitimate businesses, they use the tax credit system to supplement their employees hourly rate, in the end its the tax payer who subsidizes these employers. they make increased profits while employees can't get a decent hourly rate, doe's anyone really care?

Ble ble ble...I'll tell you guys something. I'm in the cleaning bussiness for over 7 years ..I had company in USA and UK and I'll never hire usa or british worker. Most of them are lazy and not care about job. I always will hire easter european specially Polish people . I know they came to work I know  they to afraid to lose their jobs. THEY CARE !! AND THIS IS IMPORTANT IN THIS BUSSINESS. I know that i don't have to woke up 5 morning to cover work because Polish worker never call sick ( exept really emergency ) .

you sound a bit "foreign"to me robert or maybe your drunk, or both! the statement you have just made,  substitute the words british and usa worker for black or asian worker and you would be arrested.   the figures i quoted are government figures, not mine.

[Ian Gourlay]

Personally,
I believe it is in the interest of large Food Companies to employ Polish Chinese or any other non British Worker.


We are told that we need these workers to keep the country going.

In fact our recent  low inflation has been the result of immigrant workers keeping the cost of food down that we buy in the shops along with Chinese imports produced at low cost.

However it is keeping the Wage rate in this Country lower that what it would have been.

Perhaps that is a good thing if you are a boss.

Also we have the situation where polish workers are starting small Cleaning companies, competing against British owned Small Cleaning Companies.

Most corner shops are not now owned by British People ios that the way the Cleaning Industry is going.

If we do not have sufficient Labour in this Country why was there need for Age Discrimination legislation to help the over  Fifties who have often been the victim of factory closure go back to work.

[paul bruce]

Good points Ian,

I cannot get my head round why we have to import workers when there are 1-2 million on the dole, the unemployed should be made to take these jobs.In Newcastle area they are having to train East Europeans to drive buses and taxis because the locals dont want to do it.
On the subject of cheap Chinese imports these can be a good thing because the less we pay for our slippers, shirts,and plastic buckets etc the more money we have in our pockets for other things that are good for the economy, eating out,getting cleaning done,going to the pub and buying local goods etc.

Paul

[pdl]

In the area where I live the unemployment rate is fairly low, this is due to the amount of food factories/processing plants and land work.  Our area is swarmming with EC migrant workers who carry out a vast amount of this work. 

Those that are unemployed (mainly local english people) either can't work due to health problems or won't work cos they can claim as much money off the state,if not more , than acually doing a fair days pay for a fair wage.  The other kind are our younger generation who want everything gifted on a plate, those on drugs, and those who want something for nothing. 

Both my kids are in their early 20's, they have moved out from Mum & Dad's house, they have both got jobs, (not a lot above the minimum wage), but we taught them that if they wanted something, nothing is for free.  This has stuck with them both, they both own and run their own cars,and pay all their own bills.  I  and my wife are really proud to have brought up two useful members of society.

The Polish people are really proud people, in their country they have to work hard for everything, this ethos they have brought with them to this country, and Oh boy it works for them.

My opinion, is if you work hard, play hard, don't take anything away from them.  By the way I am 100% British.

[Ian Gourlay]

The other problems are

Strain on schools where children do not speak English.

Stain on low cost Housing.

Unlikely to get Council House immedietely but private landlords supply this market forcing up rental levels or house prices for first time buyers.

This all needed to be planned, but schools etc have been left to sort out problems themselves.

Just realised this is the cleaning section so shutting up

[*Madmary's Cleaning Services]

Is it not illegal, anyway, to pay migrant workers less for the same job description as british citizens? (assuming a business is all above board and not paying cash-in-hand, which is also illegal?)

Starting new post about low wages for cleaners anyway....

[turneylogan]

In our xperience we have found Polish immigrants to the UK to be  honest hard working and very reliable.   They value the work that we give them and as a result are loyal.   Same goes for other Eastern Europeans looking for work.   

[Robert Parry]

Robert, firstly let me welcome you to our country, the poles and brits have had a close relationship for many many years.

We do actually employ more than a few of your fellow countrymen and women, and as a general rule, yes they do work very hard, and are very reliable, we also employ a number of british people as well, who are just as hard working and reliable, regardless of nationality, it is the employers ability to select, train and reward their staff, on top of all that, we as an industry must educate our prospective clients that the only way to obtain a safe, legal and quality cleaning service, is to actually pay for that service using real money, and using only cleaning firms that abide by the current legislation.

The other thing is language, all foreign workers that we employ can speak english, this is not just for Health & Safety reasons, but also customer relations, some cleaning firms employ foreign workers, dont pay the min wage or other benefits etc etc, this in turn convinces prospective clients that all cleaning firms could offer their services at rock bottom prices, this sort of behaviour is not as you might think, confined to the smaller players in the marketplace either, it never ceases to amaze me how many firms actually throw in foreign workers who cant make themselves understood within the workplace, this foreign workforce, has no real training, either in H & S or cleaning, no real idea of what they are entitled to regarding pay and conditions, these hard working people are then blamed for  for taking all of our british jobs!

The points raised about the strain on the NHS, education and housing are all valid, no country can hope to sustain a "No Limits Immigration Policy", when the nations debt has to be paid back, as all debt must, the "New Labour Smokescreen" will rapidly dispurse, then, the real tough times will begin, eastern european cleaners, are ,as a general rule, better educated than your average british cleaner, they know the true value of education, work and use the cleaning, food processing industries, as stepping stones towards a better life for themselves and their families, british cleaners, again as a general rule take cleaning jobs because they have little or no educational qualifications or use the industry to keep up with the household bills etc.

Until this istuation changes, the game will remain the same, I unlike some, remember the pain of the 80's, when the unions thought they could hold the country to ransome, I have a feeling that this time round, it is going to be much harder, regards,

Rob

[pristine cleaning]

How do you CRB check Polish workers. We have had applications from a couple of Polish ladies, but are unsure how to check their history as they have only been in the UK for 6 months?

[KarlJones]

british cleaners, again as a general rule take cleaning jobs because they have little or no educational qualifications or use the industry to keep up with the household bills etc.

Hold on a second, that is a rather way off generalisation I think.  I totally agree with everything else you have said, it is not rocket science, if you went to live in another country you would first try to get any job and slowly better yourself.  If the benefits in New Zealand were better than those of the UK would it make you go? Of course not, it is about prospects not about benefits and you correctly pointed this out.

I think, personally, if a British person goes for a job it is because they "need" it or at least feel they will be "better off".  It is fairly unusual for a British Person to have a plan to better their actual lifestyle in any dramatic way.  Usually they will have dreams, but need sort of puts those dreams on a back burner for a long time.

A Polish worker is probably exactly the same, when in Poland that is.  But when they travel to another country looking to improve their value of life they are actively trying to recreate a dream in reality.  What I mean by that is they are not just letting it stay a dream, they have plans rather than dreams.  I guess the Polish workers they have left behind in Poland are the ones with dreams.

I suppose we would call it ambition.  The very fact that someone is willing to leave a country and start off in a new one at rock bottom shows an amazing amount of ambition.

This is my last Friday on income support, in the two years that I have been on it many workers from abroad have added to the system I have been taking from.  On Tuesday I had to visit the Lone Parents Advisor to get the last things sorted. Not a nice experience, people being sick and someone wetting themselves are probably the people who need income support, but some girl shouting her mouth off about how her next door neighbour would not lend her a quid when they had just got paid sort of shows the total lack of ambition by some.

Self employment and being a lone parent sort of go together if you ask me.  So I asked him how many lone parents he had going self employed.  He answered "3 a year".

Says it all doesn't it!

[Robert Parry]

Pristine Cleaning,

We, as a company, have the beleif that our staff are our most important asset, after all most are actually key holders for our clients premises, this means that we take great care in selecting staff.

After advertising or considering any potential new staff member, we actually interview each applicant twice, we also insist on them supplying at least two work references, to be able to prove that they are actually British, or have leave to stay and work in this country, using the guidelines set out by government legislation, they also have to prove that they have lived in the UK for at least 2yrs, all of the above conditions must be met, no exceptions, they then get put forward for a CRB check.

Of course, the CRB check will only show information available at the time that the check is carried out, but by ensuring that all other aspects are carried out and followed through we remain confident that are checks and procedures are amongst the highest within the industry. This allows us to inform our clients or potential clients that we take our selection of staff very seriously, and that they can have the utmost confidence in our staff selection process.

At the end of the day, it is the cleaning companies responsibility to ensure, as far as possible, that their staff are honest, reliable and hard working, we believe, that by following the above procedures we protect, not only our staff, our good name, but also our clients interests.

Regards,

Rob

[Robert Parry]

Karl,

Bit naughty that, taking two lines out like that 

Nevertheless, I think that if you asked most British cleaners why they are in the industry, you will find that they need the cash to keep up with either the bills or to maintain a certain standard of living, again you will find, that if you ask them what qualifications they hold, you will find only a small number have any at all.

Immigrants, on the other hand, do have better qualifications, this is because they see education as an escape from financial hardship, yes these immigrants use the cleaning industry as a stepping stone to better paid jobs outside of our industry, as stated in my previous post, this is a general rule, and of course, there are many, many exceptions, one of the points of that particular post, was to point out that in the eyes of many people, including those who avail themselves of our industries services, have the attitude that cleaners are at the bottom of the food chain, both in terms of salary and social importance.

Your courage of starting your own business, proves to all, that anyone, can improve their lot, and I wish you all the success in the world, remember that you can make a difference, to both yours and your childrens lifes.

Regards,

Rob

[chosker]

Just to clear something up. We have a number of very well educated British people on our books. Cleaning is not just a job for the uneducated British. We have mothers who have had high powered jobs in the past, don't want to work full time but get bored at home. We have teachers and we also have people who worked on the stock exchange and in marketting who wanted something stress free.

[Robert Parry]

Chosker,

Nowhere in my post did I say that only the un - educated, British or otherwise work in our industry, I raised a number of points within this particular thread, regarding my own observations of the industry, there are as stated in my previous post, many exceptions, the point of my last post was to answer Karls point regarding the quote within his own post.

As the economy, slows, and inflation, dearer mortgages kick in, this will indeed for a time bring in more highly educated people into the industry who are trying to keep home and hearth together, my main point if you like, that very rarely is our industry percieved as a realistic career of choice, down to the fact, that many, including the industry itself, looks down on cleaners, once again there are exceptions, but not enough in my opinion.

Regards,

Rob