[Mr. S]

This may be a very simple question or maybe confusing!

Is what we produce for wfp actually H2o or something different? Like H1o, H2o2 or what?

Any chemists amongst us?

[macmac]

sorry mate, i'm a window cleaner, anything past lifting heavy things or driving a a tractor is beyond me.

[DaveBrown]

I think Pure water is just that - H2O. (2 hydrogen molecules joined to 1 oxygen molecule) with all the other inpurities (dissolved solids) taken out.

Dave

[dai]

I don't think that DI water is pure. Sure all the desolved solids are removed but what about other liquids without solids?
There are hazzard warnings on the resin bags and drinking DI water can make you ill. pure alchohol would have 0 TDS and you could clean windows with it too.
Pure, and been free of desolved solids is not the same thing. Dai

[pjulk]

Its not just the solids taken out though the chemicals that the water board put in to keep the water suitable for us to drink is also taken out.

And the water is not pure its purified  there may be a differance here.

Paul

[DaveBrown]

But if there were still contaminants in the water wouldn't it be left behind on the glass when dry thus leaving residue/spotting??

Dave

[dai]

Not all contaminates have solids/ minerals in them. There are other liquids apart from DI water that have none. It's the desolved solids that are left on the glass during evaperation. As I said you could clean window with alchohol. There must be loads of nasty chemicals that are mineral/ solids free. DAI

[poleman]

00.00 TDS = total dissolved solids, so YES 

[billozz]

h2o is h2o all the filters do is take out the impurities so it is still h20, i dont think you can drink D.I. water (not sure though) but im sure you can drink water thats gone through an R.O. unit thats what they fit under your sink when they fit a large filter unit

[JM123]

Now I don't mean to sound geeky (Beng Hons Chemical Engineering does this to you).

In a word ro-di water is not pure, this is because there are still VOC's (Volotile Organic Compounds) left in the water, the Carbon filters cannot remove them all.  To add to this other elements and compounds still remain - nitrates etc, the csarbon filters and membranes remove nearly everything from the water but ultimately there is only one way to remove everything from the water, purification by electrolysis - although pure water is easily synthesised from hydrogen and oxygen.

Ps did you know that pure water actually turns from ice to liquid at -176c (that may not be the exact figure but its close) then turns back to ice again at -179c

[S_RICHARDSON]

Now I don't mean to sound geeky (Beng Hons Chemical Engineering does this to you).

In a word ro-di water is not pure, this is because there are still VOC's (Volotile Organic Compounds) left in the water, the Carbon filters cannot remove them all. To add to this other elements and compounds still remain - nitrates etc, the csarbon filters and membranes remove nearly everything from the water but ultimately there is only one way to remove everything from the water, purification by electrolysis - although pure water is easily synthesised from hydrogen and oxygen.

Ps did you know that pure water actually turns from ice to liquid at -176c (that may not be the exact figure but its close) then turns back to ice again at -179c

OOOH very posh mate only kiding mate that sounds very intersting though i wouldn't put that on my leaflets just the same.  HAHA!   

[pjulk]

Ps did you know that pure water actually turns from ice to liquid at -176c (that may not be the exact figure but its close) then turns back to ice again at -179c

are you sure 

My hose froze last year and it didn't get anywhere near that temperature.

Paul

[Mr. S]

Interesting JM123!

So does that mean we can still call what we produce 'PURE WATER'?

AND, can we assume it is therefore H2o or not?

Not that im going to to tell my customers if its not, they just want to see it cleans their windows and frames!

[Ian_Giles]

Ps did you know that pure water actually turns from ice to liquid at -176c (that may not be the exact figure but its close) then turns back to ice again at -179c

are you sure 

My hose froze last year and it didn't get anywhere near that temperature.

Paul

The water we use isn't pure enough to freeze at that temp!
But put some in an ultra clean tumbler, also put some ordinary tap water in another tumbler and pop them both in the freezer, the tap water will freeze first, but when they are both frozen, look at the ice that has formed, they will be very different to look at.
I know cos I've done it
Was on the Christmas lectures a year or two ago about the qualities of pure water (nothing to do with window cleaning )

Another thing to remember about the purified water we use is that it then absorbs Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and becomes a very diluted form of  carbonic acid!

S'good stuff is water, one of the most amazing of properties by all accounts

Ian

[JM123]

can you guys read nothing right??

I said pure water turns to liquid at -176c and turns back to ice at -179c.

Seriously, read a statement before you post a reply, pure water will freeze around the 0c mark, turn to water at -176c and back to ice again at -179c (although the last 2 figures may be off a little - haven't checked my notes, just quoting from memory).

[Ian_Giles]

can you guys read nothing right??

I said pure water turns to liquid at -176c and turns back to ice at -179c.

Seriously, read a statement before you post a reply, pure water will freeze around the 0c mark, turn to water at -176c and back to ice again at -179c (although the last 2 figures may be off a little - haven't checked my notes, just quoting from memory).

You are wrong, at least in one respect, ultra pure water has a freezing point several degrees below zero.
And that is a scientific fact!
A mate of mine works in a lab and they have to use water far purer than we use for window cleaning.
Ice crystals form initially in the impurities in the water, remove those and the freezing point of the water drops.

are we to presume what you actually meant was that pure water in ice form will turn back into a liquid and then back into ice at aproximately the figures you quoted??

I'll take your word on that if that is what you mean...water is an amazing substance, it has properties that baffle scientists even now...

Ian

[freshwater]

JM,

Its frustrating isnit it, the number of partial readers in the window cleaning profession. It happens with some of my replies, they miss words and sometimes complete lines.

steve@freshwatersystems.co.uk

[JM123]

good - Ian was the only one to spot that - the true freezing point of Ultra pure water is either -7c or -12c.

However, put some di water in the freezer - it will freeze around the 0c mark.

Steve - yeah it does get frustrating.

[P®oPole™]

Very intresting, tell me JM or fresh why is this, whats the science behind such a bizzare occurance.

Also JM123 I clocked what you meant straight away tut, some people huh

ProPole

[JM123]

Propole - I can't explain, nor can anyone else - water is one of the simplest yet most complex naturally occuring compounds, think of this, most materials are more dense in their solid state than when in liquid state (cold,solid steel is more dense than liquid, molten steel), however ice is less dense than water (hence why it floats).  Also Hydrogen is a highly explosive gas at room temperature - oxygen is so reactive at room temperature that it will relight a piece of wood that is still glowing, add to this when you add energy to any atom it becomes more volotile, not so when you burn (addition of energy) hydrogen in oxygen - laws of organic chemistry would point the way to a highly volotile gas compound being formed but instead we get water, an inert, non toxic liquid.  Also water can exist in 3 different states all at the same time which no other compound or element can, at 0c water can be gas (moisture in the air), liquid and solid.

So you can see that water does not behave as 'it should', but instead has its own rules and characteristics that no other compound portrays.

Everyone understand that ok??