[mark f]

 A friend comes with me a day a week to help me on my round. He has his own window cleaning buisiness already. It never crossed my mind before, but do i need employers liability insurance for such a situation.  He doesnt do upstairs, i do those, and soon he will be wfping for me as he is already an expert at that.

   Where do you guys get yours and how much will i be looking at paying??

[mark f]

does anyone know!?!?!?!?

[Ian_Giles]

Not as far as I am aware, this lad isn't full time and he isn't on the books, no doubt you are just paying him cash in hand?

Employers liability is very, very expensive, I'm sure some of the guys on here that actually employ full time staff will know far more about it...

Ian

[stevekennedy]

You will need to ensure that he has the same or better cover than you have. Ie he will need his own Public Liability insurance. Then you will be covered if there is an accident involving any third party. (eg your customer, their pet, their property, their kids. If you brained their kid by dropping a pole then you can imagine how large the claim could be. Possibly £1millions

[Trevor Knight]

You MUST see a copy of his PL and it needs to be covering him for the work he does for you.

The fact that he only works 1 day a week makes him a sub-contractor so it is your resposibility to check his documents.

If an accident happens and he has no isurance it will come back to you, your own insurance won't cover it as it is not inclusive of sub-contractors and so it will be down to you personally.

Depending on how serious the accident is will depend on whether you just have to sell your house to pay the claim or perhaps have a stay at one of Her Majesty's Hotels

If he doesn't have insurance, DON'T use him!!!

[mark f]

he is well covered for public liability im more thinking about employers insurance ie to protect the employer from being sued by employee. Do i need it

[windows_chepstow]

he is well covered for public liability im more thinking about employers insurance ie to protect the employer from being sued by employee. Do i need it

I would say he's a sub-contractor, rather than an employee, so he couldn't sue you in that situation.

Have a read of IR 56 (Inland Revenue 56); it covers employment status and is a good read.

[mark f]

ok will do. It doesnt matter if he is employed or not. You still may need insurance. There is information on it on hse website. The fines are horrendous if you need it and dont have it although couldnt work out from information if i do.

 Phoned them up and they said its a legal mine field and i should seek legal advice.

 Cant get through to citizens advice yet.

[windows_chepstow]

   Where do you guys get yours and how much will i be looking at paying??

That would depend on his work rate.  If you, for example made 100 quid a day, and with this 'helper' make 200 quid, then anything from 50 to 60 pounds wages to him would seem fair.

As far as I know the rules, if you're supplying him with less than 60 percent of his work, and you contract him to clean the ground floors of your properties, and he uses his own tools, and he can decide how he does each job, and he has the option of contracting help in, and he can decide his start and finish times, then he's a sub-contractor.

I guess there's scope for some stretching of the above rules.

Just get him to invoice you for the work he's done, and that invoice will count as being tax-deductable.

Ensure he has pulic liability insurance for any damage to property or persons he could do and I think you should be okay.

I'm no employment expert though and I doubt the Citizens Advice will be much help.  You really need to speak to an employment solicitor and they'll be nearly as expensive as Trevor Knight!

[Trevor Knight]

I'm no employment expert though and I doubt the Citizens Advice will be much help.  You really need to speak to an employment solicitor and they'll be nearly as expensive as Trevor Knight!

  Thats £400 please, what do you mean it only took me 10 minutes, thats a bloddy bargain lol

[cvdewsbury]

grey area or what i was told 4 yrs back i didn,t need employers liability for a lad that helped us a couple of days per week as long he had his own public liability turns out my broker may have been wrong....anyone had experiences similar???

[windowwashers]

A friend comes with me a day a week to help me on my round. He has his own window cleaning buisiness already. It never crossed my mind before, but do i need employers liability insurance for such a situation.  He doesnt do upstairs, i do those, and soon he will be wfping for me as he is already an expert at that.

   Where do you guys get yours and how much will i be looking at paying??

if he is a sub contractor he will have his own insurance, if he is on your books then you will need to be insured for him.

[windowwashers]

Not as far as I am aware, this lad isn't full time and he isn't on the books, no doubt you are just paying him cash in hand?

Employers liability is very, very expensive, I'm sure some of the guys on here that actually employ full time staff will know far more about it...

Ian

£250 approx I pay I dont think thats really expensive thats for empolyers liability

[cvdewsbury]

ian this is anew lad who is coming with us i was going to set him on parttime  15.5hrs per week so do i need employers liability cover or his he ok with his own public liability ......can you put up the company who you use for employers liability( or drop us an email through ) as i need to look into this asap as ive spoken to my broker who informed me they don,t deal with an insurance company that does employers liability for window cleaners due to the high risks involved thanks in advance

[windowwashers]

ian this is anew lad who is coming with us i was going to set him on parttime  15.5hrs per week so do i need employers liability cover or his he ok with his own public liability ......can you put up the company who you use for employers liability( or drop us an email through ) as i need to look into this asap as ive spoken to my broker who informed me they don,t deal with an insurance company that does employers liability for window cleaners due to the high risks involved thanks in advance

You need it.

http://www.simplybusiness.co.uk I think the webaddress is you can get employers and public in one policy from them, I had them call me as I changed my insurance to wfp guttering and soffit cleaning so me and the guys are covered.

[Helen]

Mark F.... If your mate has his own WC business and is registered and declaring and can prove income of his own merit and you use him only one day a week, then he is a "subbie" to you. He must invoice you for the work he has done and then you pay him. He has his own PL insurance, which you must hold a copy of, Read this thoroughly and make sure he has the insurance levels you require. As he is not an employee, then you do not need Employers Liabilty for him. Your own PL insurance must include cover for sub contractors used and this is a standard question asked when getting a quote. I think Trevor put all this in his post, so just re-iterating, that if the worst happens and your mates insurance isn't at the required level and the worst does happen it could be a very expensive time for you and could even be a stay at a not so luxurious hotel. Check it out, get it right. There is a saying about there are no mates when it comes to business.....colleagues or customers.....true

[Central Window Cleaners]

Hi, I use these guys they where much cheaper than my last cover and they even cover the glass you are working on http://www.fwc-insurance.co.uk/

[Moderator David@stives]

If he is deemed as employed , then yes you do

If he is deemed as self employed, then no.

For your own sake if he is self employed, I would make sure he has his owm Liability Insurance, even though it is not a legal requirement.

Dave