[gordons]

i have read a lot of threads on this some of you say ladders are not banned others say they are.The law says if a safer method can be used then ladders are NOT allowed. So can anyone tell me situations where a back pack wfp could not be used. I cant think of many.

[Sir Squeaky]

I can think of loads.

At least 20% of my entire round for a start.

[steveaqua]

hows that squeaky?

i have never been challenge with a window we can't get to in dommestic with wfp?

[bumper]

i have read a lot of threads on this some of you say ladders are not banned others say they are.The law says if a safer method can be used then ladders are NOT allowed. So can anyone tell me situations where a back pack wfp could not be used. I cant think of many.

If you not got wfp and you carnt aford wfp, then the only option is to use a ladder,or go out and nick someones van with wfp, take the wfp system out, and burn the van out

[gordons]

You must have a strange run squeaky if a lot of your customers can not be done by wfp back pack

[Sir Squeaky]

I spent a month checking out what was possible when I considered wfp for a while.

Lots of windows above flat roofs, over garages, balconies, flaky georgians.
The list goes on....

I know a lot narrow-minded people around here (I can think of one :) will rubbish this, but I went through each day counting carefully.

It's fact, trust me.

I also do a big retirement complex which is too many windows for a backpack, and too big to reach a hose around (about 150m each side at least).
Also they pay me at the window, so that would mean going in after to collect them all. 
They all have their windows open too.
The council do them wfp now and again with a few workers, and the old dears whine like hell about the spots and runs.
I don't blame them, they're a mess when I get there. :


Can't anyone see yet why I don't want it?

[ronaldo]

I do 99% domestic and get every single window on my round, if i was on ladders i would have to leave at least 20% of them as they would be impossible to clean.
But perhaps squeaks has got an unusual round and this is the reason why he has,nt gone wfp ?

[mark f]

I have a round like squeakies where 30-40 % will be dificult with wfp but im getting it for the rest.

[Franky2020]

Why do people keep going on about traditional against wfp.
If you use traditional  and youre happy like me, and youre wfp and
happy with it ,why worry what someone else is doing. I dont get it.

[steveaqua]

I spent a month checking out what was possible when I considered wfp for a while.

Lots of windows above flat roofs, over garages, balconies, flaky georgians.
The list goes on....

whine like hell about the spots and runs.
I don't blame them, they're a mess when I get there. :


Can't anyone see yet why I don't want it?

yo squeaky, this isn't a personal attack and i really couldn't careless about trad v wfp. each to thier own.

But as for what you've mentioned above sometimes flatroofs can be difficult, i find narrow alleys to be difficult if you have to get up and over a flat roof but every single time i come up against these issues a simple 6ft Aladder against a wall normally gives you enough height to get the angle for the pole. it takes 2 seconds and is a piece of pi**, as for flakey geogians they are easy to.

as for the spots and runs that is simply a dum arse operative that isn't using the system properly! we do a lot of periodic cleans and they just need some time spent cleaning and flushing. if they leave spots or runs then its down to the person and not the system.

the only thing i'd say mate is don't knock it till you've tried it.

The only ything i will add is i find quite a lot of old people don't like wfp, when they see you leave there windows wet i had a few freak out, but then again i think quite lot of old people freak out at most things anyway

[windows_chepstow]

I have a round like squeakies where 30-40 % will be dificult with wfp but im getting it for the rest.

Even if you purchased a large van-mounted system, a backpack will get you almost anywhere where a ladder would; awkwardly large flat roofs excepting.

What I do is leave the car, with the ladders on near where I need to use them for the flat roof(s), then when I arrive at that point in the street; I'll just take the one section off to access the roof.

It's no problem, and it beats the pants out of humping a ladder around and climbing up and down it 100+ times per day.

I'm now also turning over 100 to 200 per week more on average with a backpack than I did using ladders and that's not to be sniffed at. 

I'll be getting a small van-mounted system next year, since I've taken on quite a few medium to large rural accounts, perfect for 100 percent WFP.

[macleod]

It may come as a surprise that I agree with squeaky…   

I don’t think that squeaky has an ‘unusual’ window cleaning round... 

I actually do agree that there are many occasions when a ladder could be used to gain access to Difficult windows… 

But here is the twist 

WAHR is not about the quality of your cleaning ability.
WAHR is not about can you clean each and every Window.

WAHR is about working safely.

Imagine this; I could speak to my customers and say that it would be ‘safer’ not to use a ladder i.e. not to Work at Height.

Its safer because the likelihood of me falling from Height is greatly reduced if I don’t work at Height.

Would your customers be pleased to know and respect that you are working to certain standards of Safety? Or would they tell you that they didn’t care about Safety (Perhaps some would, but I dare say according to my experience they wouldn’t argue, especially as the Law is on your side).

They know you’re hard working. They know you’re reliable. This isn’t about your personal cleaning standards. Remember this is working in the safest manner possible.

Now revisit your round and but do not ask yourself can I clean ‘Every’ window rather ask yourself could those ‘Difficult’ windows be avoided?

The answer is yes.

[Paul Coleman]

I spent a month checking out what was possible when I considered wfp for a while.

Lots of windows above flat roofs, over garages, balconies, flaky georgians.
The list goes on....

I know a lot narrow-minded people around here (I can think of one :) will rubbish this, but I went through each day counting carefully.

It's fact, trust me.

I also do a big retirement complex which is too many windows for a backpack, and too big to reach a hose around (about 150m each side at least).
Also they pay me at the window, so that would mean going in after to collect them all. 
They all have their windows open too.
The council do them wfp now and again with a few workers, and the old dears whine like hell about the spots and runs.
I don't blame them, they're a mess when I get there. :


Can't anyone see yet why I don't want it?

I see why you don't want it Squeaky.  Re-learning the round is a real hassle.  I use a ladder for some flat roof work.  Other flat roof work was dropped in situations where they wanted me to go over the top and down the other side.  I gave them the opportunity to allow me better access via the side gate but if they won't trust me with a spare gate key or won't switch to combination lock (and tell me the number), then I'm not prepared to go over the top for them any more.  Some of these customers had been with me a few years too so it's not like some new guy came along demanding access.
The ones that pay you at the window will have to tie their envelopes to handkerchiefs and parachute the money to you if you were to start WFP    .  Ironically, the spots and runbs are possibly being caused because the Council don't clean them often enough.  Also, your detergent may be hindering matters.  The 150 metre length you speak of is resolvable but can be a hassle.  Hosereels can be daisy chained to each other.  Even a fairly modest pump would cope with this.  I have daisy chained two together before now.  It sounds like three would be needed for that job.
Going for WFP is a major change in working method and it can be a nightmare until you adjust.  I had more problems than many.  Recently (after nearly a year of WFP), I pondered on how it would feel going back to all ladder work.  It made me realise that WFP was the right choice for me.  However, I wouldn't want to do it just from a backpack or trolley.  Having a van mount is very important for me as it makes life much easier.  Those people such as Tosh who have been just using backpack/trolley methods will wonder how they coped when they've spent a while with a van mount.

[rosskesava]

I'd say 80% of our work could be done with either a vanmoun or a back pack. Whether the customer would be happy in every case is debatable.

For some jobs -shops, etc, it takes too long and also on busy high streets the water is a problem especially if there's glass over the entrance.

Also, we do 3 comercial places which have foyers with marble flooring out the front. We'd have to put down 'caution wet floor' cones and then remove them when the floor's dry which is impracticle.

Any job that's inside - like in a shopping centre.

Most older places with original leaded glass.

Anywhere where the water is likely to run down the walls into the windows below if they are open. (such as 1st or 2nd floor flats in summer time)

Apart from that, not much really and for our work, most of the places I'm thinking of where a backpack would be useless are commercial anyway.

Personally, I prefer a van mounted system to a back pack and use longer hoses. All in all, I'd say wfp is a worthwhile tool and the bit I like is the increased profits and saferworking practise. The bit I hate about wfp is it always is hassle in one form or another whether it is from equipmet faiure or complaiing customers.

[macc]

I can think of loads.

At least 20% of my entire round for a start.

Stick to your bubbles Squeaky.  :

I'm 100% wfp & so far it gets to every window. It can be a pain at times but not very often.

Macc