[Fast 1 *]

an applicator doesnt fit in a builders bucket,does it?

[Clear Vision]

Right then,

Nor do some applicaters do they!!!! You get some that are bigger than the bucket. I have a 6 inch applicater and that fits in !

[Clear Vision]

Fast one and pro pole!

You have no respect then for poeple who build there own wfp systems? It looks "un-proffesional"

[Fast 1 *]

You must admit though,it does look a bit two bob.  yeee  haaaaaaa

[P®oPole™]

Any way I must be a rich cowboy as I have a wfp set up and top quality poles to my arsenal! By using towles saved me loads and It doesn't look un proffesional. I wear a uniform with my logo on it and I must admit I look more pro then the big outfits like ocs who I used to work for.

  Matthew I bow to you and your wfp system with arsenal of poles, one day I hope to be in your position  

I have very wealthy customers and a couple of famous ones on my books, I like to give out the right message and know that if I didnt I wouldnt be in a postion to have jobs like I do. and in that sort of market with your dirty rags you simply wouldnt get through the front door.

There place for me is by the sink to do the dishes, not that I will be doing that either. Out of curousity have you ever been tempted to take the one by the sink?? how long do they last between washes.

I dont talk about London like that, you have the wrong end of the stick pal what im saying is you would not last around here. but seen as your so "rich" quote from yourself, you dont need to leave the highlands. 

Im not saying there bad, for sills fine, but white ones what i meant first of all was, shiners using just towles for detailing ragging wiping the lot you got the wrong end of the stick.

Boasting about wealth, your mighty poles and pure water contraption, is going to get you, know were.

[Fast 1 *]

Call me old fashioned,but i dont want to look like a dole blagger.If you look like crap, people will assume you are crap

[neil100]

If you charge crap prices people will treat you like crap.

If you charge high prices people will treat you more highly.

I hardly lose any customers to cowboys,look on the bright side winter is starting so most cowboys will be Hibernating.

Nel

[Ian_Giles]

A man who herds and tends cattle on a ranch, esp. in the western U.S., and who traditionally goes about most of his work on horseback.  Or

A reckless or irresponsible person, esp. a show-off or one who undertakes a dangerous or sensitive task heedlessly.

One of the few sensible posts in this thread.
It is a potentially good thread but is being spoilt by antagonistic and beligerent replies.

Please people, ease up on the swear words too, outside of this forum I swear like a trooper, but on here it is frowned upon, putting asterisks or @@ in there hides nothing.

We all swear, but it isn't allowed on the forum guys.

However, to make a comment of my own on the subject of cowboys...

Mike's comment summed it all up I think.
And just because someone is using a tea towel for wiping down sills and frames does not make them either a cowboy or unprofessional.
The same goes for the type of bucket they use.
Othe descriptions of the reckless way in which they climb or use ladders is a better indication of whether or not they are cowboys.

Same as not having a BOAB or pouches, go back 25 years and you would not see any wiindow cleaners using this equipment.

I started 22 and a half years ago, I bought my equipment from a supplier we found in Brum, and he had some soft pouches for a squeeggee and other pouches for scrims.
When I got these, in my area there was not a single window cleaner using them, and all around I never saw anyone outside of my area either.
I developed the idea further and had my own designs made up for pouches and applicator/squeegee pouches.
Within a short time, a year or two, the guy who made them for me was making loads of them and selling them to other window cleaners, some of which I had but onto him, and others that had then did the same.

now of course just about all of us have them....so much so that SOME of us reckon that not having them makes us cowboys!!

There is also a big difference between being professional and APPEARING to be unprofessional, but that is appearance only.

What is being charged doesn't make you a cowboy either.

someone may have every appearance of being unprofessional, but is he skipping windows? not bothers with sills or detailing? Slapping in an invoice claiming to have done the work...but hasn't?

If the end result is a top class job, and providing he has at least followed safe practice with regards using ladders and so on, then just because he has the appearance of a cowboy it doesn't necessarily make him one!!

There is a guy in our area, Tosh and Squeaks will know him too, has a flat cap, scruffy, drab clothing, carries his ladder under his one arm and his round bucket under the other, and he looks as creepy as anything
But he has been going over 20 years and is actually a really nice chap.
He is very cheap and very slow, and to look at you would exclaim, 'Cowboy!!'

Would be very unfair to do so though....

A year ago I worked out the back of a 5 year old Toyota Corolla, today I am working out the back of a brand new Nissan Primastar van with a full van mount, and now Autumn is here I am back into my 'uniform', logo on cap and embroidered  polo shirts, sweatshirts and Fleece (still to warm to wear the last 2 items though! )
Compared to last year, my 'appearance' is way more professional...but the job I do is just the same....gets me a lot of work too

What is a cowboy is hard to define...but I like Mike's description


Ian

[niceandclean]

Changing the subject slightly, this afternoon i saw an old boy cleaning a very big house in town with newspaper!!!!! Now i have never seen that before!!!

[P®oPole™]

Changing the subject slightly, this afternoon i saw an old boy cleaning a very big house in town with newspaper!!!!! Now i have never seen that before!!!

This is what im talking about!!

[P®oPole™]

Ian,

What your basically saying then is as long as one doesnt undertake dangerous practise and are not signing on there not a cowboy.

Even if they pushed a cart didnt have any shoes, had a ladder they built themselfs out of 2x4, used pants they stole from a washing line, had an old fish tank they found in a skip which they urinated in for water, and charged £1 a house there fine so long as there not dangerous.

I aint being funny Ian because I do have upmost respect for you and your services to this forum. I know you have to come in here and be the man in the middle, but I think you were better off just to edit the posts on this one mate.

ProPole

[Sir Squeaky]

You seem to think these sorts of people are making window cleaning look bad, but that's the way it's always been. :

Before everyone went safety mad, most window cleaners were what you'd call "cowboys"
You won't make it glamorous by having a van and wfp.

You may have more modern ways of doing the job, but you're still just a "shiner" like them.

Don't try and make it something it's not.
Some people will always look down on you.
It's a working-class profession.

[Pj]

Spot on Rog!

[P®oPole™]

Squeaky I havent mentioned wfp  

Im talking about trad shining, I know of guys running very professional trad companys.

Not in 100 year old cars, that charge peanuts and use mish mash found in the kitchen equipment to clean windows with like a bin and a tea-towle (using only a tea-towle FOR EVERYTHING) ones that use step ladders, milk crates, broom handles for poles an charge stupid prices for rubbish jobs, DOES THAT NOT MAKE US LOOK BAD


80% DEARER, SAY NO MORE.

[master cleaner]

i have never been a cowboy but for a couple of years my son did the downstairs for me and he used a newcastle brown crate and he only used that because we couldnt find a champagne crate.

gary

[Ian_Giles]

Oh dear Propole, now you are taking it to extremes that make it hard to have a decent debate about!

You are confusing appearing to be a cowboy and being a cowboy, and they are 2 very different things.
Sometimes they may be linked, but not always.
Most of us are just like Squeaks, and how i was last year, and we work out of the back of our cars.
Just to go by appearances is deceptive and often false.
what we use to do the job does not make us a cowboy, not the fact that some are content to work for pennies either.

I'm not sure if Squeaks is alluding to my post or not, but I wasn't saying having a van makes it glamorous, i was actually saying that it makes little difference, the job I do is no different to the job I did when I worked out the back of the car.

The big difference is cosmetic.
My appearence alone is more professional, not the job  I do.

but the more professional your appearance, the better it is for your business....but no matter how professional you appear, you can still be a total cowboy...

And propole...are they doing rubbish jobs?

I used a broom handle for a pole for years, it cost nowt and lasted a long time and was the perfect length for most trad jobs.
On occasions I still use a step ladder, from under the kitchen sink I used the fairy liquid for more years than I care to remember, and I've never had a new car in my life. and a tea towel may not look very pro, but for sills and frames it is fine, particularly the linen ones.
One large company I knew of used those blue towels you get in toilets, you know, the ones on a perminant loop?
They cut them up and used them as scrim, and they did a bloody good job too, ant the blue cloth's looked a lot smarter than scrim.
As a window cleaner you know full well that scrim is the right thing to use, but unless you know what it is, to most people it just looks like a grubby pit of rag you rub over the windows.



Ian

[Pj]

I'm a bit scared of horses, to be honest, especially when they show the whites of their eyes, you just know they're gonna do something scatty!

Anyway, the cowboy image has never bothered me, it just reminds people that they must find a decent windowcleaner, and they are all the more relieved to find one.
And as for the type of customer who prefers the cowboy method, they are welcome to it, they'd be no good for me anyway.
Keeps the cowboys in baked beans too!

[AuRavelling79]

Get a grip guys - we're window cleaners, not rocket scientists.

If you need the kind of "respect" a titled profession gives you then go to night school like my old man did.

I'm perfectly happy with my window cleaning activities and find that if you string words together in a respectful and courteous manner then you'll be treated respectfully in return. Those that don't - well it's their loss.

Cowboys? You're only a cowboy if you feel like you're a cowboy.

[Fast 1 *]

when i was working on site,now and then you would get brickies with crap tools,looking rough.Nine times out of ten they were no good on the trowel.FACT.If you value the job you are doing you should at least get decent equipment for work.What sort of perception does a bloke with an old ladder and a dirty rag give to the public?Its not as if window cleaning equipment is expensive is it.Instead of buying beer and drugs,why dont they save a bit of money and smarten themselves up a bit?Fair enough,some are not like that.To be honest i dont care what reaction this gets.

[P®oPole™]

Well said Fast One,

To many people here are brown tounging, and scared to put peoples noses out.

its 2006 not 1960 SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!