[Art]

Hi Phil,

I've tried numerous ones aswell, life guard i've never tried, but on your recommendation i'll give it a go.
The thing i like about the W5 is, it's nice and easy to handle.

Bleach i never use on anything.

Your right about not needing the big brands. I've done allright by having good staff and doing an A1 job

Arthur

[ColinD]

Johnsons Toilet Descaler - Expensive but does the job, most times.
Lots of other "chemical" companies offer similar products, some good some not so.  All are based on similar chemical compounds in solution, i.e. in water. So what we are buying is about 90% water with a few nasties added.

For regular use, even Johnson's 3 in 1 will eradicate light build up and prevent it's re-occurance. Again expensive and still predominately H2o.

RJN Chemicals make a powder chemical "Freshclean." It works on light to medium soil, with use of a green pad it will clean most limescale off! It's eco friendly as well.

As a stand by, Vinegar with the application of a Green Pad. May have to soak the limscale for a second or two, but that happens with most other commercially available products.

Surely it's what you find that works for you and what you are comfortable with. Preference for any product is subjective, based upon experience, availability, cost and who is going to use it. The other answer is to get all our clients to fit water Softeners on the mains inlet to the buildings. Excuse me whilst I study the skys for flying pigs.

Good night, and as the late Davel Allen would say. May your gods go with you! I'm off down the pub to drink water mixed with chemical - they call it beer in this part of the country.

Adios.

[Mr BSF]

 ::)I thought I would add a few comments to the above:

Using brand name chemicals isn’t unprofessional by any means, sc Johnson have been going for over 100 years, the products they sell are excellent, I use commercial graded products made by them,  the small time chemical manufacturers tell you not to use them, our stuff is much better and cheaper,   yea right?

seen it done it and got the tee shirt

And Ive also got a fair old stash of the rubbish in 5ltr containers as stock taking up unnecessary space

Don’t waste your money on cheap imitations, buy from the established manufacturers, that have big budgets for product development, they do all sell concentrated professional products for us to dilute ourselves, that do what they say.

Regards,

BSF

[The Great One]

Hi

As regards pricing.

I have recently quoted for an office contract oly 6 hours a week. Got told yesterday that I have quoted TWICE what the other guy charges, his quote is £37.50 a week + materials! This means he is working for £6.40 p/h.

I can not and will not even try to compete with this, he has shot himself in the foot as he cannot staff the job. Needless to say sometimes he doesn't even turn up.

My quote will stay at it's current amount (includes materials)

Regards

Martin

[Robert Parry]

I do not think that is that simple Martin, you gave great advice in a previous post on how to begin to overcome the obstacle of costs, ie. try to find out their present/expectation of cleaning budgets when meeting or presenting your quotation.

However, I feel that the cleaning specification can only be prepared by taking into account the use/density/number of staff and size of the prospects premises, as well as a number of other things.

As stated before, the client's expectations need to be considered as well.
We then have to educate our prospects, in real understanding of what operations are going to be carried out, and how long these seperate operations actually take our cleaners.

I have recently quoted for an office contract oly 6 hours a week. Got told yesterday that I have quoted TWICE what the other guy charges, his quote is £37.50 a week + materials! This means he is working for £6.40 p/h.

After getting the bad news on this particular quote, did you not consider informing this prospective customer that it is very unlikely that the staff doing the cleaning would have access to holiday pay/insurance of any kind, and that the only way that this particular contract could be made profitable is by cutting corners?

When as you quite rightly state, this guy has shot himself in the foot, the contract does not work out this client will feel let down, not just by this cowboy, but indeed by the whole industry, because no one actually offered a real professional view.
The client has been allowed to focus on the cost, not what is actually required or indeed possible.

Perhaps, the prospect, having had this pointed out to him, would then have decided to go with you, but even if he did'nt, he certainly would have remembered what you said, and when things get really bad, he may have given you a call.

[a55essor]

Hi

I use Astra Trading they manufacture all thier products, you can have chemicals made as strong or weak as you want

KL

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Hi

As regards pricing.

I have recently quoted for an office contract oly 6 hours a week. Got told yesterday that I have quoted TWICE what the other guy charges, his quote is £37.50 a week + materials! This means he is working for £6.40 p/h.

I can not and will not even try to compete with this, he has shot himself in the foot as he cannot staff the job. Needless to say sometimes he doesn't even turn up.

My quote will stay at it's current amount (includes materials)

Regards

Martin

Yes and we live in the affluent South East!

[ColinD]

Just read the last few postings. I believe my point has been made. KL cleaning, when they first replied to my Hand Grenade asked "who the hell I thought I was." I am a person who saw this situation coming around the corner many years ago.

Martin 606, at £.6.40 per hour I doubt that your competing "contractor" has any form of PL or EL or any idea what he is doing.  Stick with your quote. I have just done the figures. no idea where you are, but even at min' wage you are tight, but possible. Less than that is asking for trouble. The problem is, that  problem then becomes part of our situation, as an industry.

One has to ask. Are we, by passing on information and experience, that has taken years to accrue, allowing the siuation to perpetuate?

Question? Statements made during this particular series of postings have, to a certain degree, centred around educating the client?

Surely that is why they use contractors. The onus of responsiblity rests with the contractor, not the client.

OR DOES ?

In fact, if the client has not taken sufficient measures to ensure that all, H & S, CoSHH, Employment law ( including alien and equal opportuntiies legislation), training and training records  have been implemented, and they have no PAPER TRAIL supporting them, they can and will be held jointly liable for any action under H & S, abuse of CoSHH or EMPLOYMENT and training regimes.

How many of your clients are aware of Joint and Several liability in respect of contracting with a 3rd party. ASK THE QUESTION!

Employing contract cleaners does not negate the clients responsiility, it does not amilorate their responsibilty to the staff employed by a neligant contractor, if they, the instructing client, did not take every measure open to them to ensure that all H & S, Employment and Training requirements are fulfilled, and are recorded, they can and will be, eventually, held liable under current European Law.

Surely this needs to be pointed out to prospective clients and more importantly to their Insurance Companies. Case law within the E. U is very specific with regard to Client - Contractor relationships.

So if Joh Wayne climbs of his horse and whilst drinking his milk  offers to undercut at sensible quote from a professional cleaning contractor, just ask the client who will pick up the Industrial Injury Claim, the Illegal Working Fine and the Sex Discrimination Action, when the The Duke rides  off into the sunset, never to be seen again!

Adios.

[The Great One]

Hi

Actually the contract is still open for me to quote on which i will do but I will not drop my prices, cracks are already appearing with the guy they have now.

Reason...

Chances are he couldn't be bothered on slightly above min wage, might as well go work at Tescos (can get his Viakal cheap then ) where there are no responsibilities asscociated with running a business.

 When I put in the new contract I will be telling her why things are being missed, not turning up etc if they want a pro service, they need to understand what that will take.

Regards

Martin

[Mr BSF]

I fail to see how any company can make any sort of profit on any size job at £6.40 ph, I know I have stirred the mud on pricing in the past and have had the we charge £10.00 - £15.00 ph brigade for 50 hr contracts calling me allsorts , but come on £6.40?? no way

He’s having a laugh, I’d ask to see the quote.

Regards


BSF

[www.crawleycarpetc]

I fail to see how any company can make any sort of profit on any size job at £6.40 ph, I know I have stirred the mud on pricing in the past and have had the we charge £10.00 - £15.00 ph brigade for 50 hr contracts calling me allsorts , but come on £6.40?? no way

He’s having a laugh, I’d ask to see the quote.

Regards


BSF

Whats your typical 50 hour contract worth?  :

[Prestige1]

Martin have you a definitive sales approach? If not I would get one, there is a definite sales pitch to gain new clients, some people may think it’s a case of, we do this this and this and costs this! you need a beginning, (identifying there needs) a middle (point out your benefits and features know the difference). an end (close the sale, hit him with the price and get him to commit in some way) its a bit more involved then this, but even if you are more expensive if he thinks he is getting value for money and he likes you, you will get the sale. hope you get the sale. Phil

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Martin have you a definitive sales approach? If not I would get one, there is a definite sales pitch to gain new clients, some people may think it’s a case of, we do this this and this and costs this! you need a beginning, (identifying there needs) a middle (point out your benefits and features know the difference). an end (close the sale, hit him with the price and get him to commit in some way) its a bit more involved then this, but even if you are more expensive if he thinks he is getting value for money and he likes you, you will get the sale. hope you get the sale. Phil

Hi Phil,

i think you have been building up to this? Why not post a typical scenario so we can get a better picture of what you are saying?

regards Rob.

[Mr BSF]

That depends on tupe info rcs, but if staff that were being transferred were on £5.60 ph, I would go in at around £8.00, but would be prepared to discount on early payment, this would depend on cost of equipment needed if I was supplying consumables etc, how long is a piece of string?

The jobs where hours are on the bone are the worst, I much prefer a job that is comfortable on hours being supplied

All jobs are different, if it feels right…. it will make you money.

If I dont like the look or feel of the job, I will inflate the price
 

[www.crawleycarpetc]

That depends on tupe info rcs, but if staff that were being transferred were on £5.60 ph, I would go in at around £8.00, but would be prepared to discount on early payment, this would depend on cost of equipment needed if I was supplying consumables etc, how long is a piece of string?

The jobs where hours are on the bone are the worst, I much prefer a job that is comfortable on hours being supplied

All jobs are different, if it feels right…. it will make you money.

If I dont like the look or feel of the job, I will inflate the price
 

We finally agree! 

[Mr BSF]

That’s reassuring, I’ll sleep 2night

One more thing I do though: If the job needs uprights, I tell the client I will supply BS36's but they cost £250, so I then price this into the cost, then make even more money because I only pay £### for them

[www.crawleycarpetc]

That’s reassuring, I’ll sleep 2night

One more thing I do though: If the job needs uprights, I tell the client I will supply BS36's but they cost £250, so I then price this into the cost, then make even more money because I only pay £### for them

Stop it we will get edited again!!! 

[Prestige1]

Rcs if you click on this link there ins the 7 step sales process
Phil
http://www.businessballs.com/salestraining.htm#sevenstepsofthesale

[Prestige1]

If the link doesernt work go to the web site Phil

[Prestige1]

I can't see how you can make money at £8 per hour? if you pay satff £5.60 you then pay employers ni, you will make money but how much? and is it worth it? I am sorry but I just would not go lower the £11 plus vat, to me if I am going to manage a 50hr contract I would want a decent profit margin. I supose its horses for courses, we have had words before BSF so i don't want to stir that up again, but good luck to you both. Phil