[www.crawleycarpetc]

Nothing wrong with a sense of humour, sure i've got one somewhere, probably vac'd it up.
But serious debate, don't be so hard Mike we all had to start somewhere, but we can only improve the standards within the industry by educating both our employee's and our clients, there are vast numbers of client's out there who have no more idea of cleaning than the very newest of our downtrodden broterhood!

Only by the mutual exchange of information and idea's with others can we learn, seems to me that this forum and others is the ideal place for that

Regards,

Rob

Rob, i agree but how do you go about educating clients? Especially at the stage when you are asked to quote?

Regards Rob.

[a55essor]

WHAT I FOUND ON THIS FORUM IS THAT MOST OF THE TIME IF THE NEWBIES COME UP WITH A GOOD QUESTION THEN THEY ARE ACCEPTED, IF QUESTION IS DEEMED CRAP THEN THEY HAVE THE P I S S TAKEN OUT OF THEM
KL

[Mr BSF]

i FOUND THAT MOST OF THE TIME THIS FORUM LIKES TO KNOCK MOST NEWBIES SO WHAT I FOUND IF THEY COME UP WITH A GOOD QUESTION THEN THEY ARE ACCEPTED, IF NOT THEN THEY HAVE THE P I S S TAKEN OUT OF THEM
KL

CAPS LOCK OFF<<<<

yea thats true

[Robert Parry]

Rob,

The challenge of educating clients?
(Still trying to work it out!!!!)

As an industry, is'nt  it our responsibilty to inform the client of just what is possible, and what is not, how do we do this?

Well I think the answer lies in very much our own hands, most quotes contain no any real information, except the price of course!

There is normally no information on workloading and staffing for example.

 Surely the client needs to know this?
If company a decides that the site needs  20 hrs per week, company b decides that the site needs 30 hours per week, does not the client need to know the reason why?

Get them to look and understand the difference.

Regards,

Rob

[a55essor]

Caps was left on as to highlight my point
KL

[Prestige1]

Mike. Dear me another one who is so far up his own backside its untrue, if it upsets you seeing the newbie’s ask questions bog off! You are like the school bully who takes the pee out of the kid who asks questions in class, if you don’t ask you will never learn and progress; when you started did you just know everything? If you don’t want to contribute then don’t answer the question and let some one else help, or are you in fear these newbie’s will soon be up to your level? What really annoys me is these people who throw stones and hide behind hidden details, when probably they employee less that 5 staff and are a small operation, and before you mention why I hide my details, I have my reasons but I don’t go on pontificating that I am the best and every one else is crap! Phil

[Mr BSF]

you did once upon a time show all your details Phil, but I do believe it was me that convinced you to go undercover,  like me

youve never looked back  

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Rob,

The challenge of educating clients?
(Still trying to work it out!!!!)

As an industry, is'nt  it our responsibilty to inform the client of just what is possible, and what is not, how do we do this?

Well I think the answer lies in very much our own hands, most quotes contain no any real information, except the price of course!

There is normally no information on workloading and staffing for example.

 Surely the client needs to know this?
If company a decides that the site needs  20 hrs per week, company b decides that the site needs 30 hours per week, does not the client need to know the reason why?

Get them to look and understand the difference.

Regards,

Rob

Rob

I totally agree, I recently quoted a 3 kitchen site with 3000 square feet of office space ( this company does food tastings!) they wanted an all singing / dancing service 3 days a week. Plus 30 windows outside once a month and 30 inside every other month. I quoted 10 hours a week @ £15.00 per hour and was told i was more than double another quote that they had had!

I included coshh sheets for everything, insurance details, everything i could but the bottom line was the price!!

Rob.

[martin19842]

hi there

price - service, service - price,

a couple of points,  the easiest excuse that a potential client can give for not chossing your service is

" another company was cheaper" they can say that all day long

a potential client will inevitably try to neg the price.

ask yourself this question

why are you sitting in front of MR or MRS Potential Customer (note this customer is a commercial client say an standard office found all over the country, with say 25 employees)

Potential customer hs given you time to visit their office, either as a result of a cold call, or a letter or a phone call.

but why???

you have to ask the client,  how are the current cleaners doing???

you will get an answer

good, bad, indifferent

any of those answers, is what you want to hear

bad, or indifferent-  client is seeeking a better service, therefore you need to sell the benefits of your service, and therefore the price differential

current cleaner is good-  therefore the potentail client maybe looking for a competive quote to negotatiate his current supplier down.

irrelevant of whether they are happy or unhappy with their current cleaner, as you walk round the building, find the dirt, in the toilets, and the kitchens -- favourite places.

ask the client "what is your current budget"

the client mwy tell you, or they will object to telling you.

your response--- well if you paying an unresonably high price, we may be ble to save you  money, or if you are paying a low price, then we need to quote on a like for like service level.

it just gives us some guidance on where you are with your cleaning Mr or Mrs Client

ANYBODY can sell on PRICE

i can sell £10 notes in the high street for £8 all day long

But i wont.

i hope all of the above reads properly

regards

martin

[ColinD]

Well the last two days have been very interesting! When I've delivered the freshly packed tins of vile cleaning mixture to the local market I will respond -you unluckly people.

I make one promise. I will not lobb another hand grenade into the forum - well for at least a week.

Catch you all later.

PS: To the member who queried my surname. Death by nature, and yes, Death by name.

[Prestige1]

BSF
how are you managing to stay on so long this time? you must have toned down a bit? as for my details, you just dont know what lenghts people will go to, to get one back at you, thats why I choose not to display, but you know who I am and I know who you are so where equal!

I do agree with a lot of what Colin has stated, apart from the knocking the newbies bit, if I would have had the bennefit of this board when I first started it would have saved me a lot of time and money, mostly time! well if I would have the board from the beginning I might have got up to taking £100 per week! cant seem to get over that £89.50 per week mark, I keep trying though. kind regards Phil

[The Great One]

Hi

It was actually me that suggested using Viakal!

someone had an issue with heavy shower build up and needed a good limescale product to shift it. Whats the difference between this product and a limescale product from a professional supplier. Tesco happen to do some excellent products. I have used Viakal for a year, no one single problem with it in EOT cleaning.

Whats the difference between a washing liquids, soap powders, cloths, polish, anti-bacterial etc etc bought at tescos or your supplier? Minimal at best.

I cover for a commercial contract when their people go on holiday and they use Flash with Bleach!!! I wouldn't personally but it is their call.

I use loads of professional products anti bacs, degreaser, floor cleaner etc but at times I use the supermarkets.

Sadly cleaning will always be seen as the bottom of the pile, no matter how much you rant and rave, people don't realise that without cleaning they would not be allowed to even open!

Try using it first and then comment on it's validity.

Regards

Martin

[D woods]

We sell box loads of Viakal in our shop (we run a janitorial business)
and all of it is brought by cleaning contractors who keep buying it
every month. So they must think it is a good product.

[ColinD]

Experience tells! What pleases me is that nobody, as yet, has advocated the use of Cillet Bang!

In this so called "eco-day" of society, why are we using, overpriced, ineffective products that are certainly not Green. Viakal, as an exapmple. Bleach, excuse my ignorance but are we still using a product that at most has less than 12% of it's orginal efficacy after one month from production, but is potenially the most dangerous, general purpose cleaning solution available. Not to mention what is does to the water table when it leaches in.

Bleach, in any commercial cleaning enviroment should be BANNED. It is dangerous, ineffective and most of all expensive. With a Minimal Ph value of 10.5 what are we doing using such chemical.

Question. Do all of you insist that your staff use gloves and face masks when using or dispensing bleach?

Queston. How may of you allow a phosporic aciid toilet cleaner to be in the same enviroment as a bleached based product. How many of you understand the difference? Viakal, gnerally available phos acid cleaners, even coca cola, should  never be in contact with bleach basec products.

Experience tells!

[Prestige1]

Experience tells! What pleases me is that nobody, as yet, has advocated the use of Cillet Bang!

In this so called "eco-day" of society, why are we using, overpriced, ineffective products that are certainly not Green. Viakal, as an exapmple. Bleach, excuse my ignorance but are we still using a product that at most has less than 12% of it's orginal efficacy after one month from production, but is potenially the most dangerous, general purpose cleaning solution available. Not to mention what is does to the water table when it leaches in.

Bleach, in any commercial cleaning enviroment should be BANNED. It is dangerous, ineffective and most of all expensive. With a Minimal Ph value of 10.5 what are we doing using such chemical.

Question. Do all of you insist that your staff use gloves and face masks when using or dispensing bleach?

Queston. How may of you allow a phosporic aciid toilet cleaner to be in the same enviroment as a bleached based product. How many of you understand the difference? Viakal, gnerally available phos acid cleaners, even coca cola, should  never be in contact with bleach basec products.

Experience tells!

To answear your question, To bleach something is to remove or lighten its color; a "bleach" is a chemical that can produce these effects, often via oxidation. Common chemical bleaches include sodium hypochlorite, or "chlorine bleach," and "oxygen bleach," which contains hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate. "Bleaching powder" is calcium hypochlorite. Bleaching may be a preliminary step in the process of dyeing and should never be mixed.

its very bad for the envioronment and has obviuos dangers, apart from that its bloody good stuff and wouldn't let my girls leave home with out it! Phil

[Prestige1]

Colin what do you use to combat lime scale? I have never used Viakal so I can't comment, what I use is a product I use from a supplier which is excellant, But tell us first what you use,

So that you know what lime scale is, its those white residues left on a shower screen glass that is hard to shift?

Regards Phil

[Art]

I can't hold back any longer 

Lidl does a good limscale remover, very effective and it's only 99p 

COSHH sheets are available to download via there website.

[Andy Foster]

Hi all

I am a bit confused about the comments that have been made about 'newbies' to the forum and the questions being asked by people new to the cleaning industry.

There are a lot of people on this forum who have given advice that is both useful and generous to say the least, and there are those (a minority I feel) that come on the forum just to browse.

I for one have both given and received advice and am extremely grateful for the advice I have been given, it has saved me both time and money over and over again.

I have been in the industry full time for 18 months now and so I still consider myself to be a 'newbie' as I am still learning and am constantly looking for new ways to improve my service to my customers.
Anyone who considers themselves to be beyond taking advice from others is not only (in my opinion) arrogant but runs the risk of becoming complacent about their business and their customers.

I agree that niave approaches to the industry and methods used within it can harm our reputations and casts a shadow on each and every one of us when we are bidding for new work.
I also agree that cost cutting is not the way to progress, but increasing customer service is.  This will undoubtedly enhance the perception of the industry and show our customers that we are in a profession rather than a job.

There are certain aspects of the discussions that have taken place that I would like to comment on;
- chastising those who are looking for help is not going to help our industry, only damage it in the long run
- no matter how seemingly inane the question, surely it is better to ask it that plough on without the input of someone more experienced
- attaining qualifications in your chosen sphere of work is a great show of commitment to your customers but there is no replacement for common sense and customer service, just because someone is not 'qualified' doesn't mean that they can not do the same job as someone who is qualified... and may be able to do it even better.

The whole point of the forum is to share knowledge and ensure that those in our industry (no matter how experienced or otherwise) do the right job, the right way and at the right price.
The ethos of helping others is a rare thing nowadays and it is very refreshing to see it in action here and I would not wish to see it stop.

The attitude displayed by those who would wish to criticise 'simple' questions will only discourage the more inexperienced amongst us from asking them and eventually lead to those who consider themselves to be the 'elite' being the only ones on this forum.
If that is the desired situation then it may be an idea for them to start their own forum and not allow anyone who does not fit their criteria to be a member.
This would undoubtedly be a massive loss to this forum and those seeking advice and guidance.

In closing I would like to thank once again those who offer their knowledge and experience freely and without judgement... I salute you.

Phew, that's better!!!

Andy

[Prestige1]

Art
I have used that in the past its very good, but of all the products I have used and believe me I have tried loads, in my opinion you can't beat "Life Guard" lime scale remover by Jonson Diversey. its great. my girls use it with a white scotch brite scourer, its good stuff, but leathel if mixed with bleach, gives of chlorine gas! not nice.
Its a poor cleaner who needs profesional branded products to look good, its all about the cleaner in my oppinion. regards Phil

[Mike Jones]

phil, calm down.

Art, I agree the lidl lime scale remover (marketed as W5) is excelent.