[Len Gribble]

Nick

Robert has a valid point, but I would take this a bit further Vac then agitate say with a Duo then Vac again and see what comes out! Where’s the profit?

Len

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I know it's a private poll but i know Len isn't one to shy away from an honest answer, Len do you always pre vac before cleaning?

Shaun

Ps my answer was not always as I do not do it if it is not required

[Len Gribble]

Shaun

I voted sometimes, but one has to draw the line some where! If a quality customer not a problem they pay for it, the one off’s I expect the customer too have clean/uncaltered area sorry if this offend I’m there to do the cleaning of the carpets not as domestic.

Len

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Best thing about you Len is that you tell it how it is, are you sure you've not got any Yorkshire in you?

I like what I say and I say what I like  

Shaun

[Dave Parry]

as I've said before I voted that I never vac. I can see the justification for a porty user, but with a t/m I still think that its not required. with at least twice the vacuum power and 3 times the solution pressure, I feel it gets down into the pile and drags most of the dirt back out. Even if I have to do 2 or 3 passes on specific areas I still get better than 2 hour drying times. So for now will leave my vac at home.

[Derek]

Dave

I may be totally ignorant here...forgive me I only own portables.

Loads of water surely will immediately convert the soil in the carpet to a mud, this will then penetrate deeper.

However much vacuum power you have you are working a lot harder to remove stuff that has by now penetrated into the backings... shrinkage/wick back immediately come to mind!

Logically surely it would be much easier and safer to prevac?

Derek

[Ian Gourlay]

While we on the subject of vacuming.

Is there a correct way.

I remember John Bolton saying in another post that he had a special way but did not reveal any details?

[ALEXDH]

when I vacumm I be sure to do 2 slowish passess in opposite directions then at the end i mix it up a bit at all angles a bit faster , great excercise.

On traffic lanes i goe very slow leting the brush bash as much of the carpet as possible to break down soil/ lift the pile back up.

One important thing is too stand up straight don't hunch does your back no good.

[Dynafoam]

Ian,

I was not being secretive, it's just that the finer points are best demonstrated rather than described.

Here are, however, a few basic principals that should help:

Not all areas of any carpet receive the same soil-load or trafficing - under a sofa may require only a single pass wheras traffic lanes and shoe-shuffle areas require more attention.

A brushing vacuum cleaner will do its' best work on the draw-stroke, so quick foreward, slow back is the most productive approach.

The soiling which needs our closest attention is the impacted soil at pile-base and this is best removed with the pile vertical. Hense the draw-stroke should be against the current pile-lay.

In traffic lanes and other areas where the pile is flattened or tangled, pre-treatment with a stiff pile brush to 'open' and stand up the pile and at the same time break up the impacted soil prior the vac'ing is beneficial. Either a hand brush or one of the contra-rotating electrical devices will do this.

The vacuum cleaner should be delivering its' best performance - I have written extensively elsewhere of the importance of bag changing and brush maintenance.

There is more to it than this, but these are the basics on which to develop the technique.

Don't forget either the point raised by Alex concerning posture - many people pushing a supermarket trolley or a vacuum cleaner will hunch over and put undue strain on their backs. I have also seen many pro cleaners falling into the housewife trap of wasting energy by vigorously shuffling the 'oover back and forth at a speed that gives the machine time to do no move than pick up surface crumbs - use the electric energy rather than your own  

John.

[HolmansUKLTD]

I allways vacuume because it makes for a better job, but also with portables all the dust and muck quickly clogs up the filters.

But with a truckmount you have a seperate waste tank so is there a need to pre-vaccume??

It would be interesting to find out as all the truckmount users i know dont vac?

also i will be buying a truckmount early next year!!

regards

Nick

[Dynafoam]

Nick,

I too have known TM owners who feel that  they are above that sort of thing.

See the topic on another forum if you want opinions on that.

John.

[Dave Parry]

Derek, Whilst I Normally bow to your vastly superior Knowledge, along with the likes of Ken and John, my own experience and that of other T/M owners I have spoken to leads me to believe that on the majority of domestic carpets pre vaccing does not give better results. I have not had ANY cases of overwetting or shrinkage. I also think that the sheer power of the vacuum stops overwetting and draws the dirty solution out of the pile, whithout turning it into a model of the Somme. Don't get me wrong, I think that there may be cases where pre vaccing would be required, if for instance there was a lot of debris on the carpet which would cause problems, also if extensive pre treatments were required, but I feel that the vast majority of domestic carpets dont need it. If I was to go back to using my Ninja I might consider it, but for now I remain to be convinced. Maybe other T/M users would like to add their comments.

[DaveR]

I have to say that even though I've used a tm for 4 years now I always pre vac for the reasons already mentioned and also because it's good business practice, setting me apart from the cowboys I'm surrounded by here and demonstrating to the client part of the reason the're paying a premium price.

Best Regards
Dave

[Dave_Lee]

Hi All,
I pre vac somtimes. I understand the reference to water making dry particulate into mud, and the possibility of this penetrating deeper. However, most of this dry soil is usually of the small gritty nature widely distributed throughout the carpet with higher concentrations in traffic areas. Presumebly the owner vacuums from time to time (and domestics vacs are becoming more efficient all the time) so a big build up is unlikely (in most cases).
Bearing these in mind the formation of penetrating mud is most unlikely in my opinion, and the right technique should recover, through the wand, as much of this grit that would be recovered by pre-vacuuming. There is always the exception to this rule thats why SOMETIMES I do pre-vac.
Dave.

[Robert_O]

Obtain 2 off cut carpets or swatch samples of the same type and size, and place them in use in a heavy traffic area.

Let the soil build up to a significant level.

After several weeks of intensive use, spray one with water as if you were just 'pre spraying' uniformely to the base of the tufts. Hang them both up on a washing line and beat them with a suitable impliment.

Which one releases its soil contents easier?

I can hear the comments already, 'yes but' my system has power beyond belief, I do not use portable toys.

As I understand, the recommended industry standards and  teachings all state that prevacuuming is an important integral part of the overall  professional cleaning of carpets and soft furnishings.

This is not my pompous, know it all view, but written international industry standards!

I personally feel that if a truckmount is stood side by side with a high powered portable with no pre-vacuuming taking place the truckmount will clearly have more power to remove more soil.

However if truckmounted operators believe they can skip a fundamental part of the cleaning due to their 'awsome power', then I believe that this is bringing their claims of unsurpassed service due to power to be no better than a portable operator who goes through all the right procedures.

After all my ramblings, at the end of the day you make your own choice, weighing up good  forum discussions like these, with other carpet cleaning friends & colleagues.

I don't think anyone of us is going to fall out about this issue, it's simply your personal choice!

Regards

Robert Olifent

[Dave Parry]

Robert, I appreciate the point your making, but just to clear one thing up, I never said and dont regard porty's as toys. Like most T/m operators my porty bought my T/m and I would not be without it. I also dont regard myself as elitist. As I said earlier I respest yours and others on this forums opinions. Different strokes for different folks. Anyway have to go now as Trigger needs his hay.

[Len Gribble]

Dave

Didn’t know Trigger lived in your part of the world I thought he lived in Peckham and got his hay down the nags head with Del and Rodney?

Len

[mark_roberts]

Dave

Is your Boxer truckmount vacuum only twice as powerful as a portable?

I bought a filter for my sebo so I can see whats coming out.  Sometimes theres very very little other times half a bag.  So theres a time and a place.  For me its 80% of the time.

Cleaned a 6x4 turkish rug last week.  Sits in a hallway not cleaned in 4 years.  I spent 20 mins vaccing and took out 1/3 bag of grit etc.  There was still more to come out but I gave up and cleaned it.  Looked 100%.

thanks
Mark

[Dave Parry]

The tea-leafs kept nicking his nose bag so he moved to the pleasenter climes of Berkshire. Also says the hours are better.

[Len Gribble]

Mark

I hope you charged accordantly for your time and effort not cleaned in four years was it ever vacuumed by the customer in that time? Probably not by your description 1/3 of a bag. I have no doubt it looked 100%

Dave I thought it was his broom they nicked not that he had one, only time I saw him was in the nags head

Len