[Chris R]

NCCA Training Course is NO GOOD,,,,,,,,,

For complete novices?

We often recommend that people who are new to carpet cleaning should go on the NCCA 2 day training course.

But in my opinion, it is not really suitable for people who have NO knowledge , at all, of the basics of carpet cleaning.

In the last couple of years I have sold a few portable machines to newbies.

Each of them had been on the NCCA course, and each of them had PASSED the exam.

But,,,,,,,,,, they did not know the very basic points of carpet cleaning.

How do I switch the machine on?
How do I connect up the tools ( Quick connectors)
Where does the defoamer go, do I pour it on the carpet ?
How do I use a wand or hand tool (Technique)?
What items will I need to buy to do the job properly?

If you have been on the NCCA course, what did you think of it ( for newbies).

I am not knocking the quality of the training that is offered by the NCCA ( I have been on the course myself), its just that we always say “ you should go on the NCCA course” to every newbie, and from what I have seen, it may not actually be the best advise to give.

Are they better off attending one of the courses run by extracta or Prochem first, before going on the NCCA course?

Regards
Chris

[Art]

Well said Chris. I've thought along these lines myself.

I've always thought that the C/C industry would benefit from a hands on course.
It's all very well attending a course where the instructor goes through all the procedures, but without the practical, most go away with little confidence without actually having a go at cleaning.
Theory is all good and well but without the practical aspect IMO it's not enough.

Arthur

[carpetclean]

i agree that formal  training like the ncca or equivalent is very important to newbies and i also agree a course should be put  together by some enterprising person  to give the confidence to someone going in to the field. by hands on experience 
but regarding the comment about not being able to switch the machine on that is down to the individual when he buys the machine he should make sure he gets shown by who ever is selling it surely. most  suppliers go through the basics of how the machine works and how to connect the tools.

[Derek]

Chris

Your post has been drawn to my attention and I would like to answer your various points if I may.

It is several years since I was involved in NCCA training although I still do some courses independently for various people/companies from time to time.

There is always a wide range of delegates on NCCA courses from beginners in the industry to people with ten/fifteen years experience and the training courses are tailored to cover this wide range 'experience' or lack of it.

How to switch on a machine, where to put defoamer and some of the more basic questions should be dealt with by the supplier of the machine/tools a new person chooses to buy. The NCCA courses are generic (although we do invite on a rotation basis one of our Associate members to each course to give a short presentation) and at the point the new people attend they may not have purchased a machine and each is different.

The NCCA courses deal with 'all' aspects of carpet/upholsterycleaning and all methods are demonstrated (at least they were when I was involved and I see no reason for them to have changed) Delegates are invited to try them out and some do some are too shy.

There are opportunities for delegates to speak to the tutors during the various breaks also during the evening between the two days. Delegates are also informed that they can contact the tutors/Directors after the courses if they are unsure of anything...many do and they are helped through various situations sometimes for months until they have the confidence to 'go it alone'.
I personally receive calls on a daily basis from new and some experienced existing members with queries...things change and the unexpected can occur when least expected.

When purchasing chemicals (Defoamer etc) one should always read the labels which tell you how to use it. Having said this there are ways that some of us 'old fogies' use these chemicals that will not appear in the instructions but that is down to years of experience.

The NCCA courses are still excellent value for money and it is my belief that they are a fundamental starting point for any discerning carpet/upholstery cleaning technician.

Of course if you are interested you never really stop learning

Art

The logistics of hands-on training is horrendous and would prove to be very costly for delegates...believe me I have looked into this.
You have to have different types of carpet for delegates to clean plus a wide variety of furniture....no one place would have these so they would have to be sourced and brought in. Numbers on these courses would also have to be limited to give the tutor(s) a chance to give sufficient attention to each delegate

[Adam Young]

Dear All,

Derek's comments above are still valid regarding today's training courses

I attended the NCCA course at the end of May. I was completely new to carpet and upholstery cleaning after working in Asthma research for 23 years.

To me yes there was a lot of time spent on fibre types, materials and construction, chemicals etc but this was invaluable. I found that the basics were well covered especially survey and testing techniques which surely are the no 1 priorities.

Regarding turning the machine on, come on ON/OFF it's not exactly rocket science. My second hand Diamondback came with a 7 page instruction manual in bold type not exactly heavy reading either.

Regarding wand and handtool technique, Pawlo Woloszyn. gave hands on demonstrations for about 2 hours on a oriental rug, carpet and a manky carpet out of a boat for anyone that was interested. You had a choice of priorities, joining in the  demonstration or vacating to the bar. Out of about 30 delegates about 4 of us got our pints and joined in with Pawlo!!! I personally did not spend £500 of my own cash on course fees, accomodation and flights to spend my time in the pub!

During the time Pawlo was cleaning Paul Pearce was also on hand and answered a multitude of my questions and gave loads of advice on all aspects. Bob Jennings was also there as his son was attending the course and Bob was also a mine of information.

There were some delegates attending that thought it was a bit too technical? but I think they were sent from large cleaning firms and I got the impression they just wanted to get out there and make their wages. They were not paying for the course themselves.

It has taken me from June to the end of August to properly set up my carpet and upholstery buisness and I cleaned my first paying Suite and (dirty) carpets last week, with total confidence. That was gained by attending the NCCA 2 day course. By halfway through the suite I had developed my "own" handtool technique as I'm sure most of us do.

I will be attending other training courses in future, not only ncca but probably Prochem's and a leather course to further my knowledge.

Hat's off to the NCCA, Invaluable training in my opinion.

Best regards,

Adam.

[angela carlton]

There is a rather pathetic impatience in younger people whose expectations are totally unrealistic.

Not only in work, but in life, generally.

They are coming into the adult world, unprepared having been given false expectations through the media, their parents and a diluted education system.

The more mature of these, can see the reality and accept that education and training will go on all their life and will be successful.

Unfortunately, most and it's not entirely, their fault will lack the foresight and patience, to accept that learning is just beginning and they are likely to give up and drift from job to job.

Whether you like it, or not. If you are young. You are inexperienced.

Angie

[AquaMagic]

How can the NCCA be expected to train every new delegate with every type of machine???, this is totaly impossible as you would be there forever. I found the NCCA course a good, fair & impartitial, demonstration of the different systems available and the science behind how they clean differently from other systems also when a particular system would be better than other.  I was a complete newbie when i went and think that it was perfect, although i had allready bought my TM the information would have been invaluble should i have needed advice on with system was best for me.  If you want training on the machine you are buying goto the manufactuer they all sell em.

regards

Dene

[Ian Gourlay]

Chris,

As far as this Forum is concerned I think we often suggest going on a hands on course first and then the NCCA

or IICRC

[Chris R]

Regarding wand and handtool technique, Pawlo Woloszyn. gave hands on demonstrations for about 2 hours on a oriental rug, carpet and a manky carpet out of a boat for anyone that was interested.

Hi Adam,

was this ( 2 hour) hands on demonstration by Pawlo part of the NCCA course, does it now happen on every course?

It didn’t happen on the one that I attended?

Would you still have thought so highly of the course if this hands on training had not happened?

My main point of this posting was that complete novices would benefit from the type of hands on basic training that you received.

This should take place BEFORE the main NCCA course.


Just to make sure that everyone realises that I am not knocking the quality of the NCCA training, just that it seems (to me) that a more "basic" course would be useful to complete novices.

The results of the poll (at the moment) seem to back up my view.

regards

Chris

[*paul_moss]

Any course that you go on will cover all the areas you need for cleaning carpets & Upholstery.You cannot learn years of expereience in one or two days.
You will get the fundementals and then you must progress them from there dependant on your skill base.

It like having 2 days of driving lessons.Yes you will have an understanding of the car and driving skills.
But from there on you need to practice and learn more skills.

[stevegunn]

Chris

It's a case of balancing things out yes a newbie would require more basic instruction than an experienced cc.So what would you suggest ?How could this be implemented to keep everyone happy?

[stains-away]

I attended the course in May as well, although I had 6 months experience under my belt at the time (just scratched the surface then!)I found the course to be very informative and feel that both Paul Pearce and Powlo did an excellent job both in presentation and covering the amount of material that they had to cover in the 2 days allotted.
With respect to the course being more hands on I feel that the logistics of setting a true hands on course up and giving any real number of attendees the attention that they would require to fulfill this type of training to any worthwhile degree would be almost impossible, the only way that such an event could be organised would be in very low numbered groups, with as mentioned before different carpet and furniture types shipped in.
So, in short,hands on, no, a big learning experience in a short time, yes.

I've been operating for nearly a year now and every day I face new situations (as I feel we all do, no matter how long we have been in the business) and some of the things I learned at the NCCA course has helped me to overcome a few tricky situations, not to mention it has made me aware of potential problems that I have walked away from that without the relevant information I would of walked straight into, Andy

[*paul_moss]

Andy after 3 or 5 years you will find it the same but slightly easier.

You ask the likes of Derek Bolton who has been in it most of his life ( mind he's only 25) and I bet he says he still learns new stuff every week.

[Chris R]

Chris

It's a case of balancing things out yes a newbie would require more basic instruction than an experienced cc.So what would you suggest ?How could this be implemented to keep everyone happy?

Hi Steve,

I would suggest that the NCCA runs a course for the complete novice.

Perhaps have it the day before the normal course ( making a 3 day course for newbies).

On the beginners course only deal with the basics, no mention of different fibres or fabrics.

Set up a "mock" living room.

Mark it out with tape in the NCCA training room.

Put a few chairs and tables in it, a few boxes to represent TVs and Hi Fi.

Run through the job from start to finish.

Set equipment up.

Inspect carpet fitting, pre vac, pre spray,agitate, rinse.

Place furniture on tabs /blocks.

Dress pile, set up turbo dryer.

Allow students to use machine themselves, including setting up.

Have one or two items of upholstery ( cushions) to practice on.

Perhaps a rotary machine to have a go of?

At the end of all that, they should be able to appreciate the next two days, of more complex NCCA training, with a greater understanding?

Cheers

Chris

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Chris I think you may have opened a can of worms!

You could then go into professionalism, marketing, pricing, motivation, host trades etc

BUT.................I do hope the NCCA are listening because the question/opinion has been posed and a thoughtful discussion with other directors should happen before you say "no no no"

The NCCA have started to do well out of these forums (as I suggested they would 3 or 4 years ago) please don't let the good work go to ruin.

Shaun

[Art]

Some sort of practical trainning would definately be of benefit to novices.

I understand what Derek Bolton said, but what Chris suggested would certainly go along way to prepare newbies for the real world.


Arthur

[angela carlton]

There was a recent thread, discussing training and I suggested, that in order to encourage people at all stages to take part, the most basic requirements / entry level, could be conducted via distance learning.

This would encourage the experienced, to take part, without fear of embarassment and a well constructed training program could encourage input from,  those  experienced people.

By involving Manufacturers / Suppliers / in a similar way to the open day Ken Wainwright has been posting about, the opportunity to learn is greatly enhanced.

The only problem, is the fact that most operators in c / c, are " one man bands" who overvalue their independence and are scared to drop their guard.

The NCCA or BICS are the ideal organisations to deliver this training

Angie

[Derek]

Interesting debate going here...

I speak from having organised and run training courses over the years and would like to add a few points for consideration.

A 'basic' course for absolute beginners.... What would you take out to achieve this?
The NCCA  two day training course covers most of the information that is fundamental to any carpet/upholstery cleaner.

Chris's suggestion of mocking up a room......excellent BUT....you would need a designated permanent training area to do this plus you would have to store all the items that make up 'the room' in between times....rooms cost money.
Believe me when you have transported all the equipment required to and from a training venue a few times it can get a bit tedious.

To set up a designated room would measn that costs would rise and when you read comments on the various boards almost on a day to day basis where technicians bemoan the cost of training already... would there be sufficient take up to arganise all this?

My final point and one I feel very strongly about... Its OK having the training to do things right if you then follow the procedures you have hopefully learnt. On these forums is clear evidence that many technicians totally ignore what they are taught and do their own thing...Some of the advice given on the forums makes me shudder!

Only this evening I have been helping a chap in Hertfordshire compose a report where a cleaner has damaged a three piece suite to the point where the fabric is falling to bits following his efforts at cleaning it.

Why....no proper survey carried out....cleaning with too high a pH chemical and rinsing with same.. using totally incorrect chemicals for the fabric...in a word NEGLIGENCE

[Chris R]

Steve,

you beat me to it 

Derek, with respect mate, is not this course that you will be running for cleansmart exactly what we are talking about on this topic ?

Aimed at the complete novice, a good grounding in carpet cleaning, before moving on to the more involved courses?

Text taken from Cleansmart advert

Hands-on carpet cleaning course
 
One day 'hands-on' carpet cleaning course for beginners
 
Date: 6th October 2006
Time: 9.00am to 4.30pm (plus optional practical demos after)
Venue: Lenton Business Centre, Lenton Boulevard, Nottingham
Trainer: Mr. Derek Bolton
 
Course info
For a newbie, it's easy to come out of a pure theory course feeling that you know everything about carpet cleaning - apart from how to clean carpets!

That's why we are running our series of one day 'hands-on' carpet technician courses - designed for those who are new to the carpet cleaning industry
 
 

[Derek]

Chris

Not necessarily....I think we may have been writing at cross purposes in previous posts.

My personal definition of 'hands-on' is a day where delegates can clean a variety of items  for them selves whether it be carpets or upholstery and be assessed on the results.

The day with Cleansmart will be a basic course without much of the intense theoritical stuff..but sufficient to give new people guidelines on cleaning effectively and safely. They will have an opportunity to try the equipment that is available for themselves

As you see there can be a different interpretaion on the phrase 'hands-on'   

Sorry if I have confused the issue in previous posts