[jeff1]

Dave,



In the last 6 months I have steadily converted 600 customers over to WFP and lost none, I do have about 6 that want us to carry on with traditional but to be honest that is because the glass just isn't compatible with WFP, it happens.

.

Best wishes,

Trev

Hi Trev
This isn't meant as a dig at you, Because I don't know the answer. But if you have a few customers that wish to stay Traditional or because the windows are not compatible with wfp, Then how do you stand (legally) with the WAHR and H&S? will you and they in the future have no choice but to change over?
Its the same with these customers who get rid of there wc because they don't like wfp and wish to have the traditional wc back. 

I think personally in the future its going to be Tuff  on the customer's choice,  they will have no option, but to have there windows done with wfp, or they and there traditional wc will be faceing a heavy fine.
Gazzasp8 has Just gained a customer who is against wfp, but what will that customer do when gazzasp8 changes over to wfp?
wfp is like Traditional in the sense, its not the equipment you use but the way you use it, I have gained customers because there last Traditional wc ,didn't do a very good Job and the same will happen with wfp.

Do a good job and your customers will tell very few people,
do a bad job and your customers will tell everyone.
 
I am still Traditional at the momment, but I just wish to know how you and your customers who want it done the Traditional way, will fair in the future when the new rule is set in stone??

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your question.

I have said before, this WAH directive has not been set in stone at present and although I prefer to clean all my customers WFP that is not my only option, so when I clean my customers that don't want WFP I just do it traditionally.

I will be looking at the angle if and when it ever becomes a forced issue that if my customer signs a disclaimer insisting her house is cleaned traditionally and then as long as my guys take all the required precautions i.e. footing up ladders etc.. then I don't really see a problem.

I read this forum every day and see postings where people are , as I see it, thinking along the lines of it's WFP or nothing. This really isn't the case and people should stop worrying. WFP is just another tool in our trade that has been put in front of us to use as we see fit.

As for people having no choice, I personally can't see it. I think that will never happen, there is no way in this world that a government can stipulate how someone has their windows cleaned.

Don't forget, as with every bad traditional job there are just as many bad WFP jobs being done, it is not the method but more likely the operative.

Think of it like a car, the car works fine its just the woman behind the wheel that makes it bad  ONLY JOKING!!!

Personally Jeff I wouldn't lose any sleep over this WAH directive, as long as you operate in a safe and controlled manner then you will have nothing to worry about. Wait until some actual law's are passed and then we can all sit down and look at it in a better light.

Best wishes,

Trev

[jeff1]

Thanks for your reply Trev
I have explained to all my customers over the past couple of months about the change over, and I had one customer offer to sign a disclaimer and he is a Juge, but Juge or not, if the W.A.H.R says if you can clean there windows useing alternative methods then these should be adopted,

surley a signed disclamer won't stand up if HSE nobble you, the only hope I'll have if I get nobbled is sitting on the bench is my customer  and how will you stand with insurance? even if you do have someone footing a ladder.

I think personally even when it is set in stone, there will be lots of grey area's and we won't get to know about them until someone has been prosecuted for ladder offences.

I doubt if i'll loose any sleep over it, but its just nice to know were we will stand in the future?

Trev, these are just questions I need cleared up before the big change over, and I don't wish to see wfp v Traditional this isn't what this is about, I just wish the EU and HSE would get there heads and acts together and make it clearer for everyone to know were they stand.

Its no good getting caught up a ladder and saying I didn't know? ignorance in the eye's of the  british law doesn't wash, so if you break the law in the above respect your not insured.

[williamx]

The HSE have for the last 18 months said they will set the guidelines for the WHAD Directive.

They don't seem to be in a hurry about doing this yet, but if or when they do, and they rule that you  CANNOT use ladders unless there is a PRATICAL and SAFER method then no waiver will stop you from being prosecuted.

The Insurance Companies are the ones you need to watch, they will have more of an impact on whether ladders can or cannot be used.

Already they are refusing to insure cleaners who use ladders or they place restrictions on who can or cannot use them, and for the few companies that will offer cover then their premiums will be so high that buying a wfp system will be the cheapest option.

Ladders will not be banned by either the hse or the insurance companies, but with their combined actions against ladder use, you will find that someone using a ladder will be the exception rather than the rule.

[JohnL]

I wonder why they are dragging their heels?

An unworkable bit of legislation perhaps?

Maybe ill thought out, directed 'mainly'  at one section of the working community and generally not at others?

How many people here say they are WFP but still use ladders occasionaly?

I think this question is rumbling on and well may turn out to be a non-enforcable directive at the end of the day.

However I do take the point that it will be pushed hard by the insurance companies who may well impose severe sanctions on the 'trad' system. 

JohnL

[jeff1]

The only trouble I can see with this is, our insurance going through the roof, so all legitimate guy's will go the correct route, by either paying extortionate amounts of insurance or going the wfp route.
But then you will still get the beer money brigade, as I doubt very much if there insured.