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Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year. New
« on: September 03, 2006, 04:37:18 pm »
I've been using a backpack to do 'tops only'; mostly for almost exactly a year now and have recently added up the twelve months of WFP earning and compared them to the previous twelve months worth of ladder only earnings.

It's worked out as £5157 more using the backpack.

Now all that can't be just attributed to using a WFP, since during the last twelve months I've increased my prices in many of my areas; taken on better paying work; dropping difficult or underpriced work.

But I'd reckon at least 70% of the increase is due directly because of having a WFP; especially since I've taken on many accounts I would've previously refused (three-story work/difficult accounts with a ladder; that sort of stuff).

I think it was a cracking investment; I'm hoping to make a similar improvement next year.

Have any of you guys recorded the difference between your pre and post WFP use?

I'd be interested to see how I compare.

scrimit2

  • Posts: 155
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2006, 07:11:29 pm »
Im trad only, but wanted to say good on you, thats £100 per increase, if you was working for someone else it would have to be one hell of a promotion to get a wage increase like that.

Scrimit2

pylofm

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2006, 08:28:10 pm »
Tosh , if you do not mind me asking...I am not being funny...Why do you only do tops WFP?

 :) Dave.

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 08:42:26 pm »
Tosh , if you do not mind me asking...I am not being funny...Why do you only do tops WFP?

 :) Dave.

Dave,

I don't think a backpack is generally suited to doing 100% WFP, because I work from a car and would have problems carrying all the water required; not only that Wor Lass follows behind and 'trads' the ground floor; not only that; I feel a lot 'safer' doing 'tops only'; the big puff I am.

Next year I do plan to get a van; maybe; since I'm happy with my working practices at present.


Roy Harding

  • Posts: 1964
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 08:44:14 pm »
In my first year wfp tosh I clocked up £18,000 more than the year before.

I used to have someone work with me and I did £4,000 more on my own than two had done the year before, and did not have a wage to pay.

So with saving his wage and the extra £4,000 this made £18,000 better off.


Roy

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 09:00:28 pm »
Good on you Tosh, you will be able to kit Wor Lass out with some new running gear for the winter.

The diffrence to my buisness has been amazing, my only regret now is I wished I done it many years ago.

33 weeks wfp and I am £11,500.00 up on what I was this time last year Trad. I am working fractionaly less to boot as well, plus I am not as physicaly tierd as I was doing it trad.

Nel.

sair

  • Posts: 682
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 09:11:29 pm »
i have increased my tunover by double and reduced my week by 2 days now i pay others  to do all new work thats comes in
Essentially Pure Ltd

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 10:42:40 pm »
You rotten lot! ;)

Anyway, I'm pleased with the increase in my turnover this last twelve month period!

I've just done a graph on excel from Sep 2003 onwards and it shows a good steady and sustainable increase from then till now.

I'm still a newbie remember; and will be 'celebrating' my fourth window cleaning aniversary in March 2007.

Give me a few more years...

groundhog

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 11:26:39 pm »
The wfp brainwashing goes on  :o

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 11:42:35 pm »
 ;D

paul mather

  • Posts: 528
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 11:56:02 pm »
The wfp brainwashing goes on  :o

I've been WFPing for 1 month & after all my bills were paid each week I had virtually nothing left working trad.

So would you like to tell me where my extra £400 came from, that I had in my pocket. Please tell my kids where the money suddenly came from to buy them new shoes for the new school term, or the money I gave my wife to buy some new clothes from, or the trips to the cinema & pizza hut that I could all of a sudden afford. That's not brainwashing, it's cold , hard , cash. It all adds up to a better quality of life & it means I can pay for them now rather than putting it on a credit card & paying it off some time in the future.

It's an extra £20 - £25- per day which adds up to £400 per month.

So don't keep saying that we have been brainwashed because frankly it just isn't true. If you don't like your system fine, but don't put others off the idea by the nonsense that you talk, it isn't fair.

Oh & by the way I have been cleaning windows 4 15 years so I think I know what I am talking about.
Use the wand of power !!


Warrington, Cheshire

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2006, 06:47:51 am »
In general you should be looking at organic growth in your business of 15% year on year.

What you should look at though isn't the turnover but your customer accounts.

Account for how many customers you have lost/maintained and new ones. The reason for this is this will help you understand your business better.

Think about this scenario:

Business A
Every month they lose customers but managed to replace them with new customers who either pay the same or slightly more.

At the end of the year the business has grown in turnover by 15%

Business B

This business steadily continue without losing very many customers at all. Over the year they gain new work which grows their business by 15%.

Although both business are achieving the same year end improvement on their turnover the difference in the business stability is huge.

Don't be fooled by thinking that because your turnover has gone up that you are necessarily doing well. I monitor new accounts/lost accounts/why we lost them/where the new business comes from etc.... This gives me a true indication what is working and what isn't and which avenues to persue to gain new business.

The more you know about your business the more chance you have to make it successful and reap the benefits.

Best wishes,

Trev
Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

Paul Coleman

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 09:58:02 am »
My turnover will be about the same but with higher expenses - therefore less income.
However, I have achieved this with a smaller number of customers.
I have also had a lot more time off than last year - and I mean a lot more.  If I work the same hours with WFP, I reckon that my income will be at least 30% more and could be 60% more once I ditch the poorer work and take on more better paying work.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2006, 10:04:11 am »
My in come has gone up slightly, mainly due to renewed enthusiasm with wfp, before i got wfp i was going to quit window cleaning as it was getting boring going up and down the ladder every day.

My expenses have gone up a hell of a lot too, also i have lost about 10 good jobs due to wfp, wherehas when i was trad only I never lost one job in 7 years due to the quality of my work.

Dave

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2006, 10:26:57 pm »
Groundhog,

Reading between the lines on your negative reply I can only asume you are failing financialy with wfp. If you need any help start a new Topic. I would be only to happy to help ;D

You can slag wfp on domestic work all you want. But Pauls right you are talking utter nonsense. If what you are saying is right how comes I have got all that extra money sitting in my Bank account, because of wfp on domestic work.

Nel 8)

groundhog

Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2006, 11:30:51 pm »
So where has this extra money come from, were you not keeping up with your round before or have you taken on more work?  Don't forget about the increased costs, how much did your systems cost, what does it cost to run them, poles are expensive but if used daily will only last a year or two, there will be extra wear and tear on your vehicle, water metres are going to be fitted to all houses in the near future, that will be pricey! I have also been told that wfp is very bad for your back, neck and shoulders, so you could all ba taking time off in the future for repetitive strain injuries ect. I am not failing financially in the least but this is not down to wfp, it is down to hard work.
Don't try to make wfp out to be a bed of roses as its not, it is a useful tool to have, but has its downside and limitations. ;)

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 08:16:10 am »
Hi Groundhog,

Just to let you know, I run 2 x 1000 litre holding tanks for our vehicles that are on a water meter and it costs £0.06 per 1000 litres which is equivalent to £44 per year for the water usage on top of your existing quarterly charges.

I think you will agree this is not going to effect the business

You are right about the running costs regarding the system, the poles are generally ready for replacing within 12 months, the wear and tear on your vehicle will only really be relevant if your using a car to do you work. Commercial vehicles are designed for continuos use and are up to the task, if you get them on a 3yr lease then you will always be ahead of yourself as you change them for a new one each time.

As for RSI, well that could be said about any method that is used continually, lets face it, you probably blade a window in the same pattern for the same size glass so that could give you RSI, as for the back and shoulders, I would expect pretty much every ladder out there to be heaveir than a WFP so I think if anyone woulod suffer sooner it would be the Ladder user constantly moving the ladder and carrying it around??

Like you said, WFP is no bed of roses and is like I have always said, just another tool to your aid. But I think the problem that will always raise its ugly head is no matter what system you use, anyone, if they look hard enough, will be able to find a fault.

Best wishes,

Trev

Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 10:27:03 am »
Good post Groundhog,

The extra money comes from new customers, from a price increase and doing extra jobs like con roofs.

But You have to Remember I am only doing all this extra work because I am so much faster with wfp. I am not working any longer then when I cleaned Trad, The likes of con roofs I would not have taken on if not for wfp. I earn £50 an hour on those. My average hourly rate is up 50% with wfp. Maybe my domestic work is far better suited to wfp then yours. I have only been wfp for 8 months, But I have done 26 yrs trad.

Wfp has been a godsend for me because from the winter of 2007 I will be changeing how I work. I will be taking 3 months off in winter. Great. But once again because of wfp my yearly wage will be higher doing this then working a full year Trad cleaning.

I have allready got back more then three times in extra earnings then what my system cost, in eight months.

It will cost more to run, but as the saying goes you speculate to Accumulate. But It should be no more then £800 a year running costs allowing for the worst, which is perfectly acceptable in my book, plus I put it against Tax.

When I reserched wfp I know it had to give me a greater income then Trad w/c, That was my worry, I dreaded earning the same amount as trad. I would of considered it a failure if I did.For me that worry has been unfounded. At the end of the year I will have earned four times more then the increased figure I thought  I was going to make with wfp.

My van was brand new, I drive it very sensibly so I should not be too bad with running costs. As Trev says the vans have been built and designed to carry that amount of weight. I dont overload the van, this could be a problem for some if they do it on a regular basis weather they drive a van or car.

I had a lot of trouble with Rsi in the first two months of wfp, It was a real worry,In january I hardly slept due to the pain and swelling in my hands, my hands where so swollen I could not bend my fingers, and in my upper arms, in the tricep area it felt like someone was stabing me with a knife I did not know if I would be able to carry on. But everything changed for the better when I put Gazas brushs on my poles. No more pulling off to rinse, That was what was causeing me all my problems. For the last 5 months I have not had a twinge of Rsi.

Bad back, I used to get a bad back with the ladder, normally caused by pulling my ladder over a flat roof, or droping them under washing lines. So your back is vunreable which ever way you clean windows depending on your own unique skeltal structure. I have weakend my back with to much sport, Squash and 5 a side football.

Your right wfp as its limitations. I have allready decided that high commercial work is something I will not be tendring for. I would pick up to many injuries, Wfp will not clean every single window on a w/c round to a satisfactory standard, Thats why I will clean these odd windows or houses Trad.

But in my book to slate wfp as not up to the job on a domestic round goes against eveything I have experinced and what my freinds have experinced with wfp.

Nel.


Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2006, 10:42:53 am »
Hi Guys,

I have been window cleaning for 21 years now, the last 5 years as a WFP'er.

With Trad methods I worked 4.5 days a week finishing at about 4-5.30 each day, since going over to WFP I now only work 2.5 days a week and finish at about 1.30-3.00 each day.

My profit has gone up by 75%. I also have less people doing contracts for me than I did peviously.

Simple!

RSI : the only time I suffer from this is when I have to go back to Blading windows and almost immediately my wrist starts to hurt.

I do have to go to an osteopath about once a year for realignment but then I am getting older!!

I am sure that there are some WC in parts of the country who can earn as much as me doing Trad but not where I live.

Alex

Mr. S

  • Posts: 418
Re: Pre and Post WFP earnings after a year.
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2006, 02:13:02 pm »
excellent posts!  ;) ;)

Not everybody will want to change to wfp, but in my experience its good! :P

I am looking at breaking into commercial (See post "How Do I Get Commercial Work", Please help me on that one guys!!!!) mainly because of wfp! ??? ???

House prices gone up due to cleaning upvc doors, panels, fascias, guttering, conservatories, cladding, not forgetting to mention all those innaccessable windows NO OTHER WINDOW CLEANER CAN REACH, (Well not strictly true..... should i say no other wc can clean satisfactorily with a normal extention pole, leaving marks runs and/or lines!!!) ;D ;D

My profits are and will be up at present (Bearing in mind quite a high start up cost ie. new van, filters, poles, hoses etc etc. BUT...... over a period of time I WILL EARN A LOT MORE!!!!!!!

WELL WORTH IT!! :D :D

Some of my prices have doubled(due to extras)!! BUT taking the same amount of time as trad!!! ££££££££s

I never will knock trad cleaning as at present most downstairs windows are done this way. :-X :-X

BUT FOR ME ITS THE WAY FORWARD!!!!!!!!! ;) ;)