[JM123]

have you guys lost the plot?

to start with when 2 guys work together they will do proportionally less work than 2 guys working independantly, therefore using less water.

you will never get 100% consistantly, people get sick, theres always downtime.

as for expecting someone to consistantly clean 40 houses a day, well good luck, I can't see it happening.

Lastly, I think a few on here need to relax for a bit, a lot of folks are getting up each others noses.

[Trevor Knight]

but do you think they will chase  up health and safety in domestic

jinky

In reality, not a chance.

If and when there is ever a definitive guideline that we must adhere to I really think for the next few years they will be looking at commercial.

They will do this for 2 reasons:

1) If not complying they can fine the Window Cleaner.
2) They will also be able to get a bigger fine into the company.

I would say for a domestic window cleaner to be pulled on WAH he would have to just be unlucky with the H&S executive driving past at the wrong time. For sure once it is Law they will be out to make thier mark but I can't see them pestering the domestic window cleaner.

Lets face it, there are enough window cleaners out there without insurance so for a H&S executive to try and penalise you for using ladders would just not work. There are too many dole dodgers out there that will just cause too much paperwork and hassel.

Trev

[Trevor Knight]

Just read my post, just want to make sure that I am not indicating that domestic window cleaners are ALL dole dodgers, its just we know that some are out there.

Just wanted to clear that up in case it was miss-read.

Trev

[Sir Squeaky]

You saying I should stop signing-on then Trev?

[Trevor Knight]

well now you come to mention it ! 

[abacus]

Hi jinky
in all honesty I feel it would be to problematic to ban ladders outright I have a client who is an H&S inspector who used to deal with window cleaning accident the H&S aree not toothless just sleeping tigers if the rules they put in place do not cut drasticly the number of accident they will inforce the rules so as to make it impracticle to clean windows by ladders.It realy would be easier for us but remember they have time on thier side and at £3000.00 a fine you have have some seriously good work to carry on.

I personaly cannot see the resistance to the pole if one and all had it the playing field would be level its easier especially for older people and if what they say about having to work later into our years this could be a blessing.
It really is abit like like the car at first you had to have someone walk in front with a red flag so what use was that? it was said it would not catchon  well in that case my monies on the wfp not catching on!.
I will check up on the rule but I am pretty sure that you cannot put ladder direct on grass and if it is so many trads are breaking the law it certainly was one of the major points of the consutation
shinner if you use a rojack on grass and even grvel it is safer proven in tests and I have tested it myself with others to stop the ladder slipping if it was going to I you can have the ladder at some daftold angles(not sideways ) and it wont slip
It seems funny that we need others to look after our safety and that some wont even invest a few quid in simple things for thier own good
I include myserlf in that too I have run up triple ladder over spiked railings in the past never even gave it a thought! at least h& s have us thinking now maybe thats the plan.

regards to all Grant
just read the post that they will not chase the domestic wc  look at it this a big fine on one domestic wc will stop many wc for fear of loseing a thier house and all job done commercial will just take it on the chin a sail as cvlose to the line a poss as many do now  a comserted effort would take no more than a few weeks patrolling and they will know when your in thier area they have wc as well
I think its just wishful thinking

[Moderator David@stives]

Can i just point out that ladders are not banned for window cleaning and there are no current plans to ban them.

The hse would like most window cleaners to use wfp but they understand the complexities of the job and they realise window cleaners will still need ladders.

The hse can not force window cleaners to use wfp where wfp clearly is no good for a certain job, ie milky flaky frames.

Ladders can be used in the heirachy of control, wfp should be considered first and ladders if used must be used sensibly and within hse guidelines.

Dave

[Paul Coleman]

Hi jinky
in all honesty I feel it would be to problematic to ban ladders outright I have a client who is an H&S inspector who used to deal with window cleaning accident the H&S aree not toothless just sleeping tigers if the rules they put in place do not cut drasticly the number of accident they will inforce the rules so as to make it impracticle to clean windows by ladders.It realy would be easier for us but remember they have time on thier side and at £3000.00 a fine you have have some seriously good work to carry on.

I personaly cannot see the resistance to the pole if one and all had it the playing field would be level its easier especially for older people and if what they say about having to work later into our years this could be a blessing.
It really is abit like like the car at first you had to have someone walk in front with a red flag so what use was that? it was said it would not catchon  well in that case my monies on the wfp not catching on!.
I will check up on the rule but I am pretty sure that you cannot put ladder direct on grass and if it is so many trads are breaking the law it certainly was one of the major points of the consutation
shinner if you use a rojack on grass and even grvel it is safer proven in tests and I have tested it myself with others to stop the ladder slipping if it was going to I you can have the ladder at some daftold angles(not sideways ) and it wont slip
It seems funny that we need others to look after our safety and that some wont even invest a few quid in simple things for thier own good
I include myserlf in that too I have run up triple ladder over spiked railings in the past never even gave it a thought! at least h& s have us thinking now maybe thats the plan.

regards to all Grant
just read the post that they will not chase the domestic wc  look at it this a big fine on one domestic wc will stop many wc for fear of loseing a thier house and all job done commercial will just take it on the chin a sail as cvlose to the line a poss as many do now  a comserted effort would take no more than a few weeks patrolling and they will know when your in thier area they have wc as well
I think its just wishful thinking

I do have a Rojak and have used it.
I once tried it on a mosy patio as a test (with someone at the bottom of the ladder just in case) and it started to slide.  I then used a heavy duty oven cloth under the ladder and it held firm beautifully.  It looked very unprofessional but was the safest way by ladder.  I'm starting to wonder if I should sell my pointer ladders.  My main concern though is if a drought order gets going and I need to use ladders again.

[abacus]

Shiner
thats the whole point you should havce insisted on the patio or at least where you put your ladder being clean the regs clearly state if it cannot be done safely it should not be cleaned
it will cost you more than one customer if you fall
is it reaaly worth risking your life for a couple of £

some jobs are risky and people get paid a lot for working in them but is window cleaning really that inportant I know squeeky say hes never come near to a fall but the that may have been the same for the wc that now dead it only takes the one fall
 I still use  my pointers for getting over gates and for internal work on commercials
I am not trying to get at anyone, each to his own I just dont think its worth risking a fall for on £15 or £20 these are just my thoughts on jinkys thread one that at least provoked a sensible  debate  and not just a bash at the way others choose to work
best regard grant

[Trevor Knight]

just read the post that they will not chase the domestic wc  look at it this a big fine on one domestic wc will stop many wc for fear of loseing a thier house and all job done commercial will just take it on the chin a sail as cvlose to the line a poss as many do now  a comserted effort would take no more than a few weeks patrolling and they will know when your in thier area they have wc as well
I think its just wishful thinking

Hi Grant,

I have to say I disagree with you on this one, only because I genuinely can't see a H&S executive wasting a day out and about looking for a small fish to fry. I personally believe they will target the bigger fish to send out a bigger message.

I am not saying I am right I just feel that a bigger message will cascade throughout the industry if a bigger fish is fried.  I remember about 10 years ago there was a big push on Insurance. Instead of hitting the smaller 1 man bands they sent the message out by hammering a company called Check Clean Europe Limited for £250,000 as they had not complied with the regulations. Everyone went mad and got insurance overnight. Nowadays, its been forgotten and hence there are so many window cleaners out there that still have no insurance.

Who knows how it will happen?, still, as long as I make sure everything I do is above board I can rest assured of one thing, it won't be me they drag over the hot coals 

Best wishes,

Trev

[abacus]

Hi trev

we will have to wait ans see as you say best to keep your own home in order however I feel that if tyey dont make an exaple of some domestic wcs the the attituude that we safe doing as we like will prevail with a lot of trad cleaners I have spoken to a lot who say they just dont care about the ne regs.

The h&S will have the stst if most accidents are with domestic then they will hit them hard.

regards grant

[Jason Atwell]

There are other industrys which use ladders which alot more dangerous than window cleaning, ok a fall from height is bad, no matter what you are doing. For example i used to do cavity wall insulation, in this you have to carry a large  drill that uses a 26mm drill bit, this obviously trailing a lead, and drill upto 100 holes in the house, and as high as 3 bricks under the apex. Yet in the regs they say you cant use a power tool above head height unless on scaffold, but the way they get round it is by saying the cost to scaffold a house is more than the cost of the insulation and that the insulation only takes a short time.
On average 2 and half hours, No houses i clean take that long. Also i think they would insist on a rojak or equivelent on every ladder move!