[Splash & dash]

Working 2 man is never going to reap major rewards per day.

I sometimes work with a lad who helps me out here and there, hes been doing the job years and cleans to a high standard and just as fast as me. We get on well, have a system down and I cant fault his work one bit....

But even then on days where i would do normally 300 (lets say 6 hours), we only manage 400 - 450. By the time hes been paid 100 quid is it really worth it ? Then theres those days when things go wrong and you struggle to break even....

Ive worked 2 man quite a bit and i reckon theres maybe 50 quid a day profit to be had, so ok a grand a month isnt to be sniffed at but to be working with someone all day doing your head in 5 days a week forget it.

As for you trying to incentivise him with more money maybe hes just not bothered about working harder and earning more.

For example before i was a window cleaner i was a delivery driver and they always offered overtime and saturday work, i never took it even though it was double time i just wanted to go home. They also tried to push us to call in at local businesses and leave leaflets and try to get contact details to pass to our office who would then try to drum up business from them. If we got a new client we got a bonus. None of us did it because we couldnt be arsed and wasnt comfortable doing it. Employees just want to do the bare minimum and go home.

Working on domestic your takings should have a much higher margin than what you have said  from one to guy guys , on commercial two men will easily double the figures . But it’s swings and roundabouts some times you make very good money and some days less but it’s the monthly figures that count , we work 2 guys per van and have done so for  years  and it makes good money if done right .

Well they wernt   , neither of us are slow but on our best day we probably did 500 quid. Sure theres money in it but to me its not really worth it... Maybe its because my round is all one house then move the van, i dont really have compact work where i only need to move the van 4 or 5 times. Perhaps my round is more suited to one man.

Might be worth looking at each job price perhaps that’s ware the problem lies ??

[jay moley]

We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!

As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!

I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.

Good points.

[Bungle]

We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!

As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!

I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.

Good points.

I'd have told you where to shove your job if you asked me that.

[Slacky]

We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!

As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!

Exactly that.

I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.

Good points.

I'd have told you where to shove your job if you asked me that.

And exactly that too. If you need to ask that there's a great deal not working in the working relationship. No offence meant.

[dazmond]

If he has learning difficulties and no driving licence then this is ideal if you want a lad to work with you and not go off and start his own round....

I know of 2 window cleaners and a gardener that only employ these type of lads...

They might not be perfect but they won't let you down and are grateful for a job....

I'd keep him....he ll get faster in time...

[Mark Dee]

From  what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have  posted you're the wrong boss too.

There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.

Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.

[NWH]

Being a good boss will get you so far if it was that fact it would be a doddle to employ half a dozen people,everyone has issues some leave them at home  some don’t the people that go for window cleaning jobs don’t,you become a part of their nightmare of a life.
You need someone that won’t get bored doesn’t matter what you offer them the job as we know can get boring even more so if it’s not you’re business,someone that’s a bit smarter you are in to other issues once they realise what they could earn on their own it’s tricky. 
You know if you’ve found a goer after the first day or 2 I would go for a  decent person in general over a silly quick idiot with the pole,speed comes in time being a morally good person doesn’t.

[Smudger]

currently very lucky 7 times and that's just at present 

Mind you if he cant drive I wouldn't have employed....

Niggle.... you really are a donut - you bang on about working your hours and only doing 5 houses a day blah blah blah ... 

so why would it not be possible for an employee to want shorter days ? or a 3 day week - this is really easy to accomodate no hassle at all - again, beacause you didn't make it work  does not mean this is a world wide no no.

AND yes - ive worked with and employed staff that other things in life motivate them rather than just money  - happy staff are productive staff

Darran

[jay moley]

From  what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have  posted you're the wrong boss too.

There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.

Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.

How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.

I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.

[Smudger]

You may simply not gel with him - nothing more complicated than that
You could be too soft - letting him get away with repeated questions about simple operations
I don't know you personally - but when he asks you might not be rude but exasperated - your actions may undermine him

More core points - wages what you feel is good may not be - I don't know what your arrangement is
are you giving 28 days holiday ?
Does he have to pay for uniform?

there is loads that maybe right or wrong.....


or forget employing and be a total dick like NWH

Darran

[NWH]

Does he have silk pillows does he drink proper coffee if not get him a coffee machine,make sure you provide him with a full North Face uniform are you winding him after he’s had his milk at 10 o’clock mid morning lol goodness me.
Look m8 I’ll pay you decent money all I ask is that you come in on time leave you’re problems at home and let’s crack on,28 days holiday what’s that in the Maldives 🇲🇻 he ain’t coming with me 🤣🤣🤣

[jay moley]

You may simply not gel with him - nothing more complicated than that
You could be too soft - letting him get away with repeated questions about simple operations
I don't know you personally - but when he asks you might not be rude but exasperated - your actions may undermine him

More core points - wages what you feel is good may not be - I don't know what your arrangement is
are you giving 28 days holiday ?
Does he have to pay for uniform?

there is loads that maybe right or wrong.....


or forget employing and be a total dick like NWH

Darran

In terms of gel I get on with him fine if thats what you mean but I think you mean something else?

I do have the tendency to be uncomfortable with being a tough boss. I like getting on with people which can be a weakness as an employer. I know that and Im working on it.

I have asked him why he keeps asking me the same thing and he just says he's checking. Its hard as I was clear with him yesterday at the start of the day that he was doing the fronts all day and starting straight away when we get to the job. He still asked me whether to start quite a few times.  I kind of don't know what to say.

As I said I have told him that unless he speeds up it won't work but I'm not sure he's got the message.

I think he may just not be able to work at the pace thats needed. His past jobs weren't exactly taxing: betting shop, sitting on his a*** all day and a toy shop.

I pay £9 an hour + opportunity to earn more (%)  if we go above £450 a day.

He gets 28 days holiday and I provide the uniform.

[NWH]

All these snowflakes and it’s not even Christmas 🎄 yet.

[NWH]

If I had someone with me that kept asking the same questions it may just be that he just wanted to make sure he’s doing it right maybe he hasn’t got a lot of confidence and is slow because he wants to do a good job for you.

[NWH]

The worst thing you could say would be you need to speed up a bit next thing you know he’ll be not only asking a lot of the same questions he’ll be doing a bad job,there’s someone being slow and there’s someone being lazy can’t be ar*** slow.

[NWH]

Can you trust him round peoples houses I’d take that over a few questions and being on the slow side I can tell you that.

[Stoots]

If hes slow and needs a kick up the ass hes the worng person.

The best ones dont need telling to graft hard they just do it because thats who they are. The slow ones are just that, slow in the head or slow on the feet, either way just bin him already.

[windowswashed]

You mention his previous jobs were time watching jobs, paid by the hour to watch time and bog off home once his time was up. You're paying him just above the minimum wage to work at a steady plod along pace, there's your answer, .....no real incentive to step up a few gears and get his performance up and crack on with earning  more with little reward for twice as much or more effort than previous jobs. The youth of today in general are lazy and not motivated.

If you explained how he could earn £15-20  an hour and left him to find his own motivation, if he was money motivated I bet he would put some real effort in. Before window cleaning a couple of my jobs were basic pay and I negotiated performance related pay with my employers and was taking home more than double and tripple most of my friends for the same amount of hours by finding the best methods that benefited me of working, so long as the outcome was in the favour of my employers.

[Mark Dee]

From  what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have  posted you're the wrong boss too.

There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.

Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.

How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.

I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.

This employing thing isnt easy, I employ 12 staff and Ive made all sorts of mistakes and my attitude has changed dramatically over time as I learnt about  how to employ people.
Your previous posts suggest to me that you are too eager to please, its tough, its all about balance. There have to be rules, sometimes you need to explain why.  You need to be tough when toughness is called for and empathetic  when empathy is needed. Your staff must respect you, you have to earn that respect by your actions and it takes time.  All this is easier if you have the right people to begin with.
Who are the right people? Thats really down to you to work out as you gain experience of people and life, but you have to try a few before you get the right ones. If you know they arent the right person get rid asap and move onto the next one. You will find the right one if you know what personality traits you are looking for AND you treat them right.
I have seen a couple of posts (from others) along the lines of " Its a job any idiot can do. or its just squirting water onto glass" if that your attitude to the people you want then thats what you are going to get (general statement not aimed at you Jay).

Its a complicated subject with many many variables, people want structure and leadership from someone they respect and who respects them. If you respect your employee and arent getting that respect back, get rid. Employing a window cleaner who cant drive wasnt a great move IMO,  but you were in a rush to employ (which has made your situation worse.

I wish you well Jay.

[Ggh]

Little update on this:

So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).

Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.

He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.

My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.

Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days.  Also - "should I wipe the sills".

Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.

The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.

Bit of a rant sorry.

Thoughts?

Sack him. Too slow, you want one that races with you. Even if you get the odd complaint, it’s better than a sloth.