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TYCOON

  • Posts: 71

dazmond

  • Posts: 23501
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2020, 06:49:02 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂
price higher/work harder!

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2020, 07:45:52 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

I’ve had some 7k months Daz. Also some £1500 months in December in the past  ;D

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3883
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2020, 11:31:22 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂
You might need it the following month when you have to quarantine for two weeks after your weeks holiday abroad😜

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3475
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:30 am »
I’m still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I’m about £600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I’m up and have replaced it with more work.

I’m holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2020, 08:50:11 am »
I’m still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I’m about £600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I’m up and have replaced it with more work.

I’m holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.

Read a really good article by the money saving expert team, Martin says  ‘even if your profits are up, if you would have earned more without covid, then you can legitimately claim.’

I haven’t claimed yet, but think I may well do depending on how the next two weeks go.

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 11:09:15 am »
Hope you lot dont have to pay it back.  :D

Will be interesting to see who has made the criteria of adversely affected when it comes to crunch time.

Slacky

  • Posts: 7548
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 11:31:55 am »
I’m still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I’m about £600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I’m up and have replaced it with more work.

I’m holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.

Read a really good article by the money saving expert team, Martin says  ‘even if your profits are up, if you would have earned more without covid, then you can legitimately claim.’

I haven’t claimed yet, but think I may well do depending on how the next two weeks go.


Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 11:45:00 am »
So profits are higher than last year , How the hell can someone know if their profits would have been higher if there was no coronavirus   ???

I think there’s a lot of people trying it on

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 12:31:43 pm »
So profits are higher than last year , How the hell can someone know if their profits would have been higher if there was no coronavirus   ???

I think there’s a lot of people trying it on

Not at all mate, for example:

My profits are similar to last year, however I had a large softwash job contract cancelled in April for a big housing association. This would have bumped my profit up significantly. As it is, I’ve lost out purely due to Covid. Therefore I can legitimately claim as I’ve lost that extra profit.

There are many instances like this.

At the end of the day, the reason people find this grant help so controversial, is because it’s a blanket payment. You may have lost £3000 of work, but get a £7000 grant. That’s not your problem, that’s up to the government. They chose to give a blanket amount that may very well mean you are better off.


Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 01:16:46 pm »
See with me , I’m pretty much upto capacity. Like daz , my income is similar all year round apart from the price increases which Iv just done last month

Slacky

  • Posts: 7548
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 01:25:52 pm »
I have a number of large pressure washing jobs also cancelled because of Covid, with emails confirming this.

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 01:29:52 pm »
Get it claimed.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 01:32:26 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 01:39:02 pm »
See with me , I’m pretty much upto capacity. Like daz , my income is similar all year round apart from the price increases which Iv just done last month

It’s a very individual case, I genuinely lost work, so can claim with a clear conscience.

It really is a case of knowing if you’ve lost any work or not, as apposed to ‘my profit is the same’.

My profits are good, but would have been even better had it not been for the lockdown and pandemic.


dazmond

  • Posts: 23501
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2020, 03:20:35 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\

i put the vast majority of my job prices up back in april so im happy..........

i think its utterly ridiculous that people can  claim even though their profits are up......it not fair on the millions of people whos businesses have been drastically effected and are in deep  financial trouble through no fault of their own.......... ::)roll.
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 03:26:05 pm »
It’s also not fair that the people who haven’t claimed are going to be helping paying it back in higher Tax increases,swings in roundabouts the increase in furlough is down to keeping unemployment figures down.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2020, 03:35:16 pm »
We have friends who own a swingers club and they are still shut. They’re the ones who should be claiming

Slacky

  • Posts: 7548
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2020, 04:00:40 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first £5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\

i put the vast majority of my job prices up back in april so im happy..........

i think its utterly ridiculous that people can  claim even though their profits are up......it not fair on the millions of people whos businesses have been drastically effected and are in deep  financial trouble through no fault of their own.......... ::)roll.

I think its utterly ridiculous there are people who 'rent' subsidised housing when they could easily afford to pay the market rate.  8)

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2020, 05:22:15 pm »
It’s not ridiculous Daz, if the government are willingly offering you a grant for any business loss, then take it.

If you weren’t affected, that’s fine mate.

You keep forgetting over and over again, that some of us were genuinely affected. I was over £1000 down for three months in April/June/July.

So it would utterly ridiculous not to take a grant that’s been out there to cover that loss.

It’s not about profit, it’s about loss of regular jobs/contracts.

You have to remember a lot of us are supporting a family, a mortgage and much more. So a loss of £1000 is a lot. A heck of a lot. Despite the fact my profits are still good, they would have been a lot lot better without this pandemic.

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2020, 05:26:13 pm »
We have friends who own a swingers club and they are still shut. They’re the ones who should be claiming

Anyone who’s affected should be claiming mate. It’s not based on earnings, it’s based on any loss of trade, be that £200 or £2000.  8)

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2020, 05:59:43 pm »
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in".

It has nothing to do with money. You could have had your best ever year, income wise, and still be entitled to claim.
If you've had to 'scale down', you can claim. Forget about income or turnover. It's nearly impossible for HMRC to use it to determine whether you have been adversely affected or not.
So they're not using it.
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NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2020, 06:11:19 pm »
To be quiet honest they won’t be interested after listening to them talk lately they seem more he’ll bent on looking into workers that are down as being furloughed but they are still working during this,the firms they work for need to worry not the little independent window cleaner I must admit it did look like that originally but claiming for workers that are furloughed when they’re still working is what I’ve heard keep coming up.

Dave Willis

Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 07:07:27 pm »
Without that payment I wouldn’t be having a record month.

Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 07:45:39 pm »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

simon w

  • Posts: 1562
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2020, 08:29:57 am »
Is this grant up and running now? if so any links to where you can get your money from?

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2020, 08:52:30 am »
Is this grant up and running now? if so any links to where you can get your money from?

No, first grant will be January, second in April I reckon.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

dazmond

  • Posts: 23501
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2020, 12:12:27 pm »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2020, 01:12:08 pm »
They’ve even said Daz keep within you’re bubble get what you can get you’ll be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven’t had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else’s debt.

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2020, 04:44:22 am »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....

How is it making any difference whatsoever to people who are suffering financially in other sectors?

Claim it and give it to them if you're that worried about it.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

deeege

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2020, 07:42:38 am »
They’ve even said Daz keep within you’re bubble get what you can get you’ll be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven’t had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else’s debt.

Are you admitting that you were wrong with all the nonsense you’ve been spouting about HMRC tracking down claimants these last few months then?
"....and it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink, and mother wake me early in the morning."

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2020, 08:21:24 am »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....

How is it making any difference whatsoever to people who are suffering financially in other sectors?

Claim it and give it to them if you're that worried about it.
Working class guilt, Souples.
Look at the title of the thread! It's government policy and people shouldn't be ashamed about claiming it.
It's your right to do so, legitimately.
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NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2020, 11:47:08 am »
They’ve even said Daz keep within you’re bubble get what you can get you’ll be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven’t had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else’s debt.

Are you admitting that you were wrong with all the nonsense you’ve been spouting about HMRC tracking down claimants these last few months then?
No my opinions have changed due to what they are now saying I was basing it on requirements at the time.

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
Rishi just doubled the grant.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Rishi just doubled the grant.
And Andy Burnham will cave in.
See what a bit of whining can do?  ;D
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simon w

  • Posts: 1562
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?
The deadline for the second one was the 19th of this month.
I don't know much about the next ones and things are changing often.
Hopefully, I won't be adversely affected again but I can't be sure of that.
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simon w

  • Posts: 1562
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?
The deadline for the second one was the 19th of this month.
I don't know much about the next ones and things are changing often.
Hopefully, I won't be adversely affected again but I can't be sure of that.

Missed out on that one then but looks like you can claim again on 1 November 2020 I've made a note in the diary 👍

Bungle

  • Posts: 2206
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We’re you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn’t claim as I wasn’t adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I’ve started to lose some due to financial reasons.
We look at them, they look through them.

simon w

  • Posts: 1562
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We’re you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn’t claim as I wasn’t adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I’ve started to lose some due to financial reasons.

No I wasn't contacted by HMRC I claimed the first one and would claim anymore that are going I'll make sure I don't miss the Nov date unless changes are made.

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
I wish they would stop it with these grants.

I was annoyed that i couldnt get the first one.

Now its taking the p, 4 grants or whatever i could have had, missed out on thousands because i was Ltd.

You fecking leeches i hope you choke on it.
 ;D

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We’re you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn’t claim as I wasn’t adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I’ve started to lose some due to financial reasons.

No I wasn't contacted by HMRC I claimed the first one and would claim anymore that are going I'll make sure I don't miss the Nov date unless changes are made.
You should have had an email if you claimed the first one. I don't know if you can do anything about that now.
I don't know anything about the subsequent grants and I'm hoping that I won't need them. I'll try and have a look if I get the chance but this could go on well into next year. The government will have to pay us if we can't work because of the virus.
That's one of the reasons they take our money in the first place.
I've spoken to a few people that didn't claim because they couldn't be bothered or because they didn't think that they needed it.
It's our money; not the government's.
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zesty

  • Posts: 2310
It’s not really our money Griffin.

Hence why the government is building up astronomical debt.

Our economy no where near covers the amount of help we’re receiving.

You sound like a socialist?

Now I’m not suggesting we don’t take the grants, but I am expecting the country to pay over and above what we have been paying in taxes for many many years to come, to repay the debt.

My advice to anyone adversely affected is to take the grant, absolutely. But I would never suggest it’s ‘our money’ when it isn’t.

‘Our money’ doesn’t even cover the running of our country in good times, let alone during this pandemic.

This is the problem, no one wants to pay high taxes, but we still want a first class country with social benefits and the streets swept. Fact is, that all takes money, and we don’t cover it as a nation. Hence, BIG DEBT.

At least that insane man Corbyn didn’t get in. The country would be bankrupt within months.

We’ve had a taste of socialism during this pandemic, and we’re finding out (as expected) that it always, without exception, leads to huge national debt, amongst job losses and unemployment. Granted the job losses are due to the virus, but socialism has a similar effect, albeit slightly slower.

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
It’s not really our money Griffin.

Hence why the government is building up astronomical debt.

Our economy no where near covers the amount of help we’re receiving.

You sound like a socialist?

Now I’m not suggesting we don’t take the grants, but I am expecting the country to pay over and above what we have been paying in taxes for many many years to come, to repay the debt.

My advice to anyone adversely affected is to take the grant, absolutely. But I would never suggest it’s ‘our money’ when it isn’t.

‘Our money’ doesn’t even cover the running of our country in good times, let alone during this pandemic.

This is the problem, no one wants to pay high taxes, but we still want a first class country with social benefits and the streets swept. Fact is, that all takes money, and we don’t cover it as a nation. Hence, BIG DEBT.

At least that insane man Corbyn didn’t get in. The country would be bankrupt within months.

We’ve had a taste of socialism during this pandemic, and we’re finding out (as expected) that it always, without exception, leads to huge national debt, amongst job losses and unemployment. Granted the job losses are due to the virus, but socialism has a similar effect, albeit slightly slower.

Only read the first line.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
It is our money. We give the government the money and they spend it on us. Where do you think that they get the money from?
I am a socialist. It's not about paying high taxes, it's about a lot of wealthy people paying low or even no taxes. Some pay lower rates than those on minimum wage.
We have a taste of socialism every day and you can't just dismiss that when it suits. Break your leg and get treated at A&E without taking out your wallet. That's socialism.
The debt comes when not everyone pays in and I'm not talking about cash in hand window cleaners.
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zesty

  • Posts: 2310
No it’s not mate.

No one is paying that much tax to cover the grants they are receiving.

So it’s not your money. It’s borrowed money.

Socialism never works, ever. Never has, never will. It’s a flawed concept for dreamers.

Thankfully there aren’t many socialist nutters like you about. That was proven by corbyns massive defeat.

Show me a socialist country and I’ll show you poverty.

Don’t go claiming the Nordic model is socialist by the way, bevsuse it absolutely isn’t.

When I visited Ukraine last December, the locals were utterly shocked to hear that people like you exist in the U.K. They just could not believe people in the U.K. even begin to entertain the idea of socialism. They know all too well how disastrous it is.

If it was your money, the government wouldn’t be in debt. Your tax doesn’t even cover the street sweeper and light outside your house. Let alone a £7k grant.


Bottom line, your tax isn’t paid so you can receive a grant every few months. There for, it’s not ‘your money’.





G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
No it’s not mate.

No one is paying that much tax to cover the grants they are receiving.

So it’s not your money. It’s borrowed money.

Socialism never works, ever. Never has, never will. It’s a flawed concept for dreamers.

Thankfully there aren’t many socialist nutters like you about. That was proven by corbyns massive defeat.

Show me a socialist country and I’ll show you poverty.

Don’t go claiming the Nordic model is socialist by the way, bevsuse it absolutely isn’t.

When I visited Ukraine last December, the locals were utterly shocked to hear that people like you exist in the U.K. They just could not believe people in the U.K. even begin to entertain the idea of socialism. They know all too well how disastrous it is.

If it was your money, the government wouldn’t be in debt. Your tax doesn’t even cover the street sweeper and light outside your house. Let alone a £7k grant.


Bottom line, your tax isn’t paid so you can receive a grant every few months. There for, it’s not ‘your money’.
So capitalism isn't working either? The government are continually borrowing with no way of paying it back?
Look at the poverty in America, as well.

Socialism never works? You claimed the grant, didn't you? You use the NHS, I presume?

I'm more of a socialist than I am a capitalist. Am I 100% socialist? No, because I'm part of the free market as a window cleaner.
The same as you not being 100% capitalist because you're willing to accept state aid and use state funded services.
I'm in favour of a free market with government intervention, some nationalisation and a decent welfare state.
Germany isn't doing too badly.

So come on then, where is the government's money coming from and who is prepared to continually bankroll the country?
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zesty

  • Posts: 2310
Paying taxes under capitalism is the best of a flawed bunch of systems.

Paying taxes for some state benefits isn’t socialism.

Socialism is evil. It’s dire. It never works. It Always increases poverty. It always increases the size of the government, and decreases the citizen.

I’d take capitalism every day of the week. It’s far fairer.

Only self entitled, lazy people want pure socialism.


And Yes, I’ve no problem with people taking the grant, my problem is people claiming they are ‘owed’ it. We’re not owed anything. It’s not our money, it’s incredible that we have a government that’s helping in this way. But it’s all got to be paid back. Hence the dark side of socialism. High taxes = job losses and poverty.

Just look at California. People fleeing by the droves due to high taxes, socialist style policy, and spiralling living costs.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
How can an economic philosophy be evil?
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zesty

  • Posts: 2310
How can an economic philosophy be evil?

Of course it can.

To steal people’s Money to give people free stuff is wrong.

And no that’s not the NHS, schools etc. I’m talking real socialism. It steals.

Why would you want bigger government control? All it does is decrease your freedom.

Again, show me a socialist country and I’ll show you unhappiness, unemployment, control, poverty and economic ruin.

Go and visit Ukraine, like I did. They will help you with your love for socialism Griff. They know a thing or two about it.

It never works, it brings death, decay and decline. It is an evil system.

Capitalism brings economic prosperity that can be in part, be shared with the nation.

Socialism is like a leech, eventually you run out of blood money.

Do you still think the grant money is our money? Is that how a socialist thinks? Even after being explained it clearly isn’t. It’s debt. So to claim ‘it’s our money’ is part of the problem, socialists have a sense of entitlement. It’s wrong.


A quick history lesson for you:

Socialism failed in:

Germany
The Soviet Union
 Cambodia
 Cuba
 China
 Vietnam
North Korea
 Romania
 Venezuela

So why do you think it will work in the U.K.? The reason you think it will work is the same reason every other country thinks it will work - ‘we’ll do it differently’.  ::)roll


G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

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Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.

Lol

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.
Aye and who has the most deaths?
And look at our figures with a PM that has to redefine child poverty.
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zesty

  • Posts: 2310
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that’ll give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you’re very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I’m amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.

Soupy

  • Posts: 19326
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that’ll give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you’re very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I’m amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.
Lol
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

zesty

  • Posts: 2310
You can’t win arguments against dreamers, the good news is, the nation is mainly capitalist, hence corbyns massive defeat.

Thankfully griff and soupy, you’re the minority. Feel free to move to a socialist country.

Interesting when I speak to customers about this subject, some were socialist untill they got a job and house. They very quickly become capitalist.

This is why socialism is so popular among youth. I never imagined seasoned window cleaners would want socialism. Capitalism is the reason us window cleaners are so successful.

This is my last post on this thread, again, you can’t argue against utopian dreamers. Please go and visit a former socialist country both of you.

And watch the videos, they’re easy to understand. You can’t argue against the simple truth.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that’ll give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you’re very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I’m amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.
You mentioned Germany. I'm not 100% socialist, I've told you. Very few countries are.
Germany has a social market economy with a good social welfare system. Some of it from the private sector.

You're emotionally spouting about China and Venezuela because I want a better health and welfare system and more public control of essential services.
There is a balance.
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NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Don’t waste your time worrying about it if you lived another 10 lifetimes you wouldn’t change a thing,I find it easier when I’m just concerned what’s going on in my bubble because I can change what’s happening in there.

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 929
Anyone got any popcorn they can share with me?  I ran out and this is entertaining i need popcorn!