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TYCOON

  • Posts: 71

dazmond

  • Posts: 21297
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2020, 06:49:02 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂
price higher/work harder!

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2020, 07:45:52 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

I致e had some 7k months Daz. Also some 」1500 months in December in the past  ;D

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3402
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2020, 11:31:22 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂
You might need it the following month when you have to quarantine for two weeks after your weeks holiday abroad😜

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3324
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:30 am »
I知 still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I知 about 」600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I知 up and have replaced it with more work.

I知 holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2020, 08:50:11 am »
I知 still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I知 about 」600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I知 up and have replaced it with more work.

I知 holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.

Read a really good article by the money saving expert team, Martin says  粗ven if your profits are up, if you would have earned more without covid, then you can legitimately claim.

I haven稚 claimed yet, but think I may well do depending on how the next two weeks go.

Stoots

  • Posts: 4916
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 11:09:15 am »
Hope you lot dont have to pay it back.  :D

Will be interesting to see who has made the criteria of adversely affected when it comes to crunch time.

Slacky

  • Posts: 4855
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 11:31:55 am »
I知 still unsure wether to claim the second grant. 😁

I知 about 」600 down in lost income with contracts on pause etc, but over all I知 up and have replaced it with more work.

I知 holding off in case I have to isolate too. The Covid numbers are going a bit crazy In my area.

Read a really good article by the money saving expert team, Martin says  粗ven if your profits are up, if you would have earned more without covid, then you can legitimately claim.

I haven稚 claimed yet, but think I may well do depending on how the next two weeks go.


Shrek

  • Posts: 3472
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 11:45:00 am »
So profits are higher than last year , How the hell can someone know if their profits would have been higher if there was no coronavirus   ???

I think there痴 a lot of people trying it on
ⓘ  Official sources stated that is true

Trump 2020

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 12:31:43 pm »
So profits are higher than last year , How the hell can someone know if their profits would have been higher if there was no coronavirus   ???

I think there痴 a lot of people trying it on

Not at all mate, for example:

My profits are similar to last year, however I had a large softwash job contract cancelled in April for a big housing association. This would have bumped my profit up significantly. As it is, I致e lost out purely due to Covid. Therefore I can legitimately claim as I致e lost that extra profit.

There are many instances like this.

At the end of the day, the reason people find this grant help so controversial, is because it痴 a blanket payment. You may have lost 」3000 of work, but get a 」7000 grant. That痴 not your problem, that痴 up to the government. They chose to give a blanket amount that may very well mean you are better off.


Shrek

  • Posts: 3472
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 01:16:46 pm »
See with me , I知 pretty much upto capacity. Like daz , my income is similar all year round apart from the price increases which Iv just done last month
ⓘ  Official sources stated that is true

Trump 2020

Slacky

  • Posts: 4855
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 01:25:52 pm »
I have a number of large pressure washing jobs also cancelled because of Covid, with emails confirming this.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 01:29:52 pm »
Get it claimed.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 01:32:26 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 01:39:02 pm »
See with me , I知 pretty much upto capacity. Like daz , my income is similar all year round apart from the price increases which Iv just done last month

It痴 a very individual case, I genuinely lost work, so can claim with a clear conscience.

It really is a case of knowing if you致e lost any work or not, as apposed to 僧y profit is the same.

My profits are good, but would have been even better had it not been for the lockdown and pandemic.


dazmond

  • Posts: 21297
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2020, 03:20:35 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\

i put the vast majority of my job prices up back in april so im happy..........

i think its utterly ridiculous that people can  claim even though their profits are up......it not fair on the millions of people whos businesses have been drastically effected and are in deep  financial trouble through no fault of their own.......... ::)roll.
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 15157
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 03:26:05 pm »
It痴 also not fair that the people who haven稚 claimed are going to be helping paying it back in higher Tax increases,swings in roundabouts the increase in furlough is down to keeping unemployment figures down.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3472
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2020, 03:35:16 pm »
We have friends who own a swingers club and they are still shut. They池e the ones who should be claiming
ⓘ  Official sources stated that is true

Trump 2020

Slacky

  • Posts: 4855
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2020, 04:00:40 pm »
I dont need it.....I'm on course for my first 」5k month this month....


Happy days......👍🙂

Exactly how much more would that have been if you hadn't had to bail on your price increases?  :-\

i put the vast majority of my job prices up back in april so im happy..........

i think its utterly ridiculous that people can  claim even though their profits are up......it not fair on the millions of people whos businesses have been drastically effected and are in deep  financial trouble through no fault of their own.......... ::)roll.

I think its utterly ridiculous there are people who 'rent' subsidised housing when they could easily afford to pay the market rate.  8)

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2020, 05:22:15 pm »
It痴 not ridiculous Daz, if the government are willingly offering you a grant for any business loss, then take it.

If you weren稚 affected, that痴 fine mate.

You keep forgetting over and over again, that some of us were genuinely affected. I was over 」1000 down for three months in April/June/July.

So it would utterly ridiculous not to take a grant that痴 been out there to cover that loss.

It痴 not about profit, it痴 about loss of regular jobs/contracts.

You have to remember a lot of us are supporting a family, a mortgage and much more. So a loss of 」1000 is a lot. A heck of a lot. Despite the fact my profits are still good, they would have been a lot lot better without this pandemic.

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2020, 05:26:13 pm »
We have friends who own a swingers club and they are still shut. They池e the ones who should be claiming

Anyone who痴 affected should be claiming mate. It痴 not based on earnings, it痴 based on any loss of trade, be that 」200 or 」2000.  8)

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2020, 05:59:43 pm »
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in".

It has nothing to do with money. You could have had your best ever year, income wise, and still be entitled to claim.
If you've had to 'scale down', you can claim. Forget about income or turnover. It's nearly impossible for HMRC to use it to determine whether you have been adversely affected or not.
So they're not using it.
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NWH

  • Posts: 15157
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2020, 06:11:19 pm »
To be quiet honest they won稚 be interested after listening to them talk lately they seem more he値l bent on looking into workers that are down as being furloughed but they are still working during this,the firms they work for need to worry not the little independent window cleaner I must admit it did look like that originally but claiming for workers that are furloughed when they池e still working is what I致e heard keep coming up.

Dave Willis

Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 07:07:27 pm »
Without that payment I wouldn稚 be having a record month.

Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 07:45:39 pm »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

simon w

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2020, 08:29:57 am »
Is this grant up and running now? if so any links to where you can get your money from?

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2020, 08:52:30 am »
Is this grant up and running now? if so any links to where you can get your money from?

No, first grant will be January, second in April I reckon.

dazmond

  • Posts: 21297
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2020, 12:12:27 pm »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 15157
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2020, 01:12:08 pm »
They致e even said Daz keep within you池e bubble get what you can get you値l be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven稚 had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else痴 debt.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2020, 04:44:22 am »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....

How is it making any difference whatsoever to people who are suffering financially in other sectors?

Claim it and give it to them if you're that worried about it.

deeege

  • Posts: 4299
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2020, 07:42:38 am »
They致e even said Daz keep within you池e bubble get what you can get you値l be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven稚 had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else痴 debt.

Are you admitting that you were wrong with all the nonsense you致e been spouting about HMRC tracking down claimants these last few months then?
"....and it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink, and mother wake me early in the morning."

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2020, 08:21:24 am »
150k down on this time last year!
No grants for me.

Get whatever you can guys. This might fun on for years.

For most of us mainly domestic window  cleaners this pandemic has had zero effect on earnings overall.....and for those where earnings are up(I include myself in that)then we shouldn't be able to claim any money at all.....

It's just not fair on all the people that are suffering financially in other sectors.....

How is it making any difference whatsoever to people who are suffering financially in other sectors?

Claim it and give it to them if you're that worried about it.
Working class guilt, Souples.
Look at the title of the thread! It's government policy and people shouldn't be ashamed about claiming it.
It's your right to do so, legitimately.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NWH

  • Posts: 15157
Re: Chancellor unveils new Job Support Scheme and extends self-employed grant
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2020, 11:47:08 am »
They致e even said Daz keep within you池e bubble get what you can get you値l be paying it back with everyone else even if you haven稚 had a penny,a bit like paying for someone else痴 debt.

Are you admitting that you were wrong with all the nonsense you致e been spouting about HMRC tracking down claimants these last few months then?
No my opinions have changed due to what they are now saying I was basing it on requirements at the time.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
Rishi just doubled the grant.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
Rishi just doubled the grant.
And Andy Burnham will cave in.
See what a bit of whining can do?  ;D
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simon w

  • Posts: 1266
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?
The deadline for the second one was the 19th of this month.
I don't know much about the next ones and things are changing often.
Hopefully, I won't be adversely affected again but I can't be sure of that.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

simon w

  • Posts: 1266
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?
The deadline for the second one was the 19th of this month.
I don't know much about the next ones and things are changing often.
Hopefully, I won't be adversely affected again but I can't be sure of that.

Missed out on that one then but looks like you can claim again on 1 November 2020 I've made a note in the diary 👍

Bungle

  • Posts: 1661
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We池e you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn稚 claim as I wasn稚 adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I致e started to lose some due to financial reasons.
We look at them, they look through them.

simon w

  • Posts: 1266
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We池e you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn稚 claim as I wasn稚 adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I致e started to lose some due to financial reasons.

No I wasn't contacted by HMRC I claimed the first one and would claim anymore that are going I'll make sure I don't miss the Nov date unless changes are made.

Stoots

  • Posts: 4916
I wish they would stop it with these grants.

I was annoyed that i couldnt get the first one.

Now its taking the p, 4 grants or whatever i could have had, missed out on thousands because i was Ltd.

You fecking leeches i hope you choke on it.
 ;D

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
Is there any more money we can claim at the moment since that last self employment grant back in the summer? If so anyone have any links on where to claim. If there aren't any going at the moment any idea if there will be any rolling out before the end of the year?  Have they tightend up any rules on who can claim on the new grants or is it the same as before just give them your tax reference number and bank account details you want your money transferred into?

You should have been contacted by HMRC asking if you wanted to claim.  We池e you contacted? The deadline for the last one was 19/10/2020. I didn稚 claim as I wasn稚 adversely affected.  Future grants? That may change in the coming months though as I致e started to lose some due to financial reasons.

No I wasn't contacted by HMRC I claimed the first one and would claim anymore that are going I'll make sure I don't miss the Nov date unless changes are made.
You should have had an email if you claimed the first one. I don't know if you can do anything about that now.
I don't know anything about the subsequent grants and I'm hoping that I won't need them. I'll try and have a look if I get the chance but this could go on well into next year. The government will have to pay us if we can't work because of the virus.
That's one of the reasons they take our money in the first place.
I've spoken to a few people that didn't claim because they couldn't be bothered or because they didn't think that they needed it.
It's our money; not the government's.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
It痴 not really our money Griffin.

Hence why the government is building up astronomical debt.

Our economy no where near covers the amount of help we池e receiving.

You sound like a socialist?

Now I知 not suggesting we don稚 take the grants, but I am expecting the country to pay over and above what we have been paying in taxes for many many years to come, to repay the debt.

My advice to anyone adversely affected is to take the grant, absolutely. But I would never suggest it痴 双ur money when it isn稚.

前ur money doesn稚 even cover the running of our country in good times, let alone during this pandemic.

This is the problem, no one wants to pay high taxes, but we still want a first class country with social benefits and the streets swept. Fact is, that all takes money, and we don稚 cover it as a nation. Hence, BIG DEBT.

At least that insane man Corbyn didn稚 get in. The country would be bankrupt within months.

We致e had a taste of socialism during this pandemic, and we池e finding out (as expected) that it always, without exception, leads to huge national debt, amongst job losses and unemployment. Granted the job losses are due to the virus, but socialism has a similar effect, albeit slightly slower.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
It痴 not really our money Griffin.

Hence why the government is building up astronomical debt.

Our economy no where near covers the amount of help we池e receiving.

You sound like a socialist?

Now I知 not suggesting we don稚 take the grants, but I am expecting the country to pay over and above what we have been paying in taxes for many many years to come, to repay the debt.

My advice to anyone adversely affected is to take the grant, absolutely. But I would never suggest it痴 双ur money when it isn稚.

前ur money doesn稚 even cover the running of our country in good times, let alone during this pandemic.

This is the problem, no one wants to pay high taxes, but we still want a first class country with social benefits and the streets swept. Fact is, that all takes money, and we don稚 cover it as a nation. Hence, BIG DEBT.

At least that insane man Corbyn didn稚 get in. The country would be bankrupt within months.

We致e had a taste of socialism during this pandemic, and we池e finding out (as expected) that it always, without exception, leads to huge national debt, amongst job losses and unemployment. Granted the job losses are due to the virus, but socialism has a similar effect, albeit slightly slower.

Only read the first line.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
It is our money. We give the government the money and they spend it on us. Where do you think that they get the money from?
I am a socialist. It's not about paying high taxes, it's about a lot of wealthy people paying low or even no taxes. Some pay lower rates than those on minimum wage.
We have a taste of socialism every day and you can't just dismiss that when it suits. Break your leg and get treated at A&E without taking out your wallet. That's socialism.
The debt comes when not everyone pays in and I'm not talking about cash in hand window cleaners.
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zesty

  • Posts: 1667
No it痴 not mate.

No one is paying that much tax to cover the grants they are receiving.

So it痴 not your money. It痴 borrowed money.

Socialism never works, ever. Never has, never will. It痴 a flawed concept for dreamers.

Thankfully there aren稚 many socialist nutters like you about. That was proven by corbyns massive defeat.

Show me a socialist country and I値l show you poverty.

Don稚 go claiming the Nordic model is socialist by the way, bevsuse it absolutely isn稚.

When I visited Ukraine last December, the locals were utterly shocked to hear that people like you exist in the U.K. They just could not believe people in the U.K. even begin to entertain the idea of socialism. They know all too well how disastrous it is.

If it was your money, the government wouldn稚 be in debt. Your tax doesn稚 even cover the street sweeper and light outside your house. Let alone a 」7k grant.


Bottom line, your tax isn稚 paid so you can receive a grant every few months. There for, it痴 not 惣our money.





G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
No it痴 not mate.

No one is paying that much tax to cover the grants they are receiving.

So it痴 not your money. It痴 borrowed money.

Socialism never works, ever. Never has, never will. It痴 a flawed concept for dreamers.

Thankfully there aren稚 many socialist nutters like you about. That was proven by corbyns massive defeat.

Show me a socialist country and I値l show you poverty.

Don稚 go claiming the Nordic model is socialist by the way, bevsuse it absolutely isn稚.

When I visited Ukraine last December, the locals were utterly shocked to hear that people like you exist in the U.K. They just could not believe people in the U.K. even begin to entertain the idea of socialism. They know all too well how disastrous it is.

If it was your money, the government wouldn稚 be in debt. Your tax doesn稚 even cover the street sweeper and light outside your house. Let alone a 」7k grant.


Bottom line, your tax isn稚 paid so you can receive a grant every few months. There for, it痴 not 惣our money.
So capitalism isn't working either? The government are continually borrowing with no way of paying it back?
Look at the poverty in America, as well.

Socialism never works? You claimed the grant, didn't you? You use the NHS, I presume?

I'm more of a socialist than I am a capitalist. Am I 100% socialist? No, because I'm part of the free market as a window cleaner.
The same as you not being 100% capitalist because you're willing to accept state aid and use state funded services.
I'm in favour of a free market with government intervention, some nationalisation and a decent welfare state.
Germany isn't doing too badly.

So come on then, where is the government's money coming from and who is prepared to continually bankroll the country?
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zesty

  • Posts: 1667
Paying taxes under capitalism is the best of a flawed bunch of systems.

Paying taxes for some state benefits isn稚 socialism.

Socialism is evil. It痴 dire. It never works. It Always increases poverty. It always increases the size of the government, and decreases the citizen.

I壇 take capitalism every day of the week. It痴 far fairer.

Only self entitled, lazy people want pure socialism.


And Yes, I致e no problem with people taking the grant, my problem is people claiming they are 双wed it. We池e not owed anything. It痴 not our money, it痴 incredible that we have a government that痴 helping in this way. But it痴 all got to be paid back. Hence the dark side of socialism. High taxes = job losses and poverty.

Just look at California. People fleeing by the droves due to high taxes, socialist style policy, and spiralling living costs.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
How can an economic philosophy be evil?
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zesty

  • Posts: 1667
How can an economic philosophy be evil?

Of course it can.

To steal people痴 Money to give people free stuff is wrong.

And no that痴 not the NHS, schools etc. I知 talking real socialism. It steals.

Why would you want bigger government control? All it does is decrease your freedom.

Again, show me a socialist country and I値l show you unhappiness, unemployment, control, poverty and economic ruin.

Go and visit Ukraine, like I did. They will help you with your love for socialism Griff. They know a thing or two about it.

It never works, it brings death, decay and decline. It is an evil system.

Capitalism brings economic prosperity that can be in part, be shared with the nation.

Socialism is like a leech, eventually you run out of blood money.

Do you still think the grant money is our money? Is that how a socialist thinks? Even after being explained it clearly isn稚. It痴 debt. So to claim 訴t痴 our money is part of the problem, socialists have a sense of entitlement. It痴 wrong.


A quick history lesson for you:

Socialism failed in:

Germany
The Soviet Union
 Cambodia
 Cuba
 China
 Vietnam
North Korea
 Romania
 Venezuela

So why do you think it will work in the U.K.? The reason you think it will work is the same reason every other country thinks it will work - 層e値l do it differently.  ::)roll


G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

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Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3472
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.

Lol
ⓘ  Official sources stated that is true

Trump 2020

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
So you start explaining  that an economic philosophy can be evil by saying that it steals peoples' money?
You just made that up.

You also said that socialism failed in China. How are you measuring failure? To me, the Chinese economy seems to be doing ok, at the moment. They're in the top two in the world for GDP.
Germany? They're doing ok with their social market economy. They're top in Europe for GDP.
Vietnam are doing ok, too. They had 'maybe' the fastest growing economy in the world a few years ago.

And all of them have covid under control.
Aye and who has the most deaths?
And look at our figures with a PM that has to redefine child poverty.
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zesty

  • Posts: 1667
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that値l give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you池e very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I知 amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.

Soupy

  • Posts: 15036
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that値l give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you池e very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I知 amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.
Lol

zesty

  • Posts: 1667
You can稚 win arguments against dreamers, the good news is, the nation is mainly capitalist, hence corbyns massive defeat.

Thankfully griff and soupy, you池e the minority. Feel free to move to a socialist country.

Interesting when I speak to customers about this subject, some were socialist untill they got a job and house. They very quickly become capitalist.

This is why socialism is so popular among youth. I never imagined seasoned window cleaners would want socialism. Capitalism is the reason us window cleaners are so successful.

This is my last post on this thread, again, you can稚 argue against utopian dreamers. Please go and visit a former socialist country both of you.

And watch the videos, they池e easy to understand. You can稚 argue against the simple truth.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 30514
You need to look at history griff. Germany is no longer socialist.

You are ignorant. Do the research, or, go and live in Venezuela, that値l give you a taste of modern socialism!

A few vids that might help you:

https://youtu.be/bKhR9i5CGkA

https://youtu.be/Fdfru9NHGvE

https://youtu.be/CCIdm3cM6zQ

Oh, and if you trust China with Covid, you池e very slightly mad.

Go and live there, the biggest surveillance state in the world, less freedom and huge poverty. It baffles my mind that people in this country would put China on some kind of pedestal. Have you seen there human rights record? I知 amazed at the unbelievable ignorance of some of you socialist dreamers.
You mentioned Germany. I'm not 100% socialist, I've told you. Very few countries are.
Germany has a social market economy with a good social welfare system. Some of it from the private sector.

You're emotionally spouting about China and Venezuela because I want a better health and welfare system and more public control of essential services.
There is a balance.
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NWH

  • Posts: 15157
Don稚 waste your time worrying about it if you lived another 10 lifetimes you wouldn稚 change a thing,I find it easier when I知 just concerned what痴 going on in my bubble because I can change what痴 happening in there.

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 809
Anyone got any popcorn they can share with me?  I ran out and this is entertaining i need popcorn!