[CleanClear]

if you go out of business all your employees loose their livelihoods

And if your employees don't come in, you loose yours.

[dazmond]

if an employee hasnt got an underlying health problem and isnt looking after his disabled grandma,etc he should be working(one man,one van).......sack him if he wont come in.....ruddy snowflake generation!

another thing....why do farmers have to employ mainly foreign workers to pick their vegetables?its farcical.......why cant the uk workforce do the jobs (like we did in the 80s?)lots of food will be wasted this summer......

people need to man up.......YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU!!

[Crystal-clear]

Not read the thread but if an employee refuses to work (and he's not claiming he's sick) then you are well within your rights to sack him for breach of contract.

Being "scared of covid" isn't an excuse.

As long as you are putting the proper  safe working practices in place then he should work if he is told to.

Under normal circumstances yes - but not for this - this is exceptional conditions

Yes there is a duty of care - thats one reason why our staff are furloughed the other is their respective partners and family members either work NHS or care homes and I personally wouldn't like to think I sent my guys out to get a few quid, pick up the virus and it then spread through the care home knocking off 20 or 30 old biddies - thats not a responsibility I want.

Darran

It's amazing that you've chosen to do that my only worry would be that the government for some reason don't give you the grant because we've not specifically been told to close.
Because at the moment you need to pay everyone and then apply.
I do genuinely hope you get it but is there any part of you that's 50-50?  Whether you've got the balance sheet to sustain 3 or 4 months of 80% wages and no income is irrelevant people who make a lot of money tend to keep wanting a lot more money. There's some people out there that are not impacted and blatantly going to apply for grants and furlough so respect for your decision

[Ooooooog]

As an employer, apart from the health and safety aspect, your roll is to make sure the company is profitable. Or there’s no jobs for anyone.

So which in your book would take priority H&S for staff or turning a profit ?

Darran

They are both critical.

[Ascjim]

The idea of the 80% paid by the government is if you cannot trade due to the virus. We have stopped because work has run dry, but if you have a round then you should carry on.

If you have explained to him that he won't come in contact with anyone, then he obviously wants a free holiday.

Explain if he doesn't come in then disciplinary action will be taken.

When your the boss you have to make these kinds of decisions and be the nasty one. Most people don't want that responsibility.

[Smudger]

As an employer, apart from the health and safety aspect, your roll is to make sure the company is profitable. Or there’s no jobs for anyone.

So which in your book would take priority H&S for staff or turning a profit ?

Darran

They are both critical.

Wrong - H&S will always outweigh “profit”

CC -  will the gov. Pay, who knows but I think odds are they will, and as stated previously the well being of staff + families are my first priority - I’m not going over the hundreds of posts on this but the overwhelming message is STAY HOME - we have commercial works so are hit by the virus, I could put the guys on short time but how’s that fair to them ? Furloughed will mean they get 80 % of their wages

Darran

[Missing Link]

I've a mate in the local running club whining on faceache because he's a civil servant and he still has to travel to work, even though he says the work he does in non-essential.  He can't work from home because they use a secure computer network.

He's just jealous he's not sat at home on full pay.

[Ooooooog]

As an employer, apart from the health and safety aspect, your roll is to make sure the company is profitable. Or there’s no jobs for anyone.

So which in your book would take priority H&S for staff or turning a profit ?

Darran

They are both critical.

Wrong - H&S will always outweigh “profit”

CC -  will the gov. Pay, who knows but I think odds are they will, and as stated previously the well being of staff + families are my first priority - I’m not going over the hundreds of posts on this but the overwhelming message is STAY HOME - we have commercial works so are hit by the virus, I could put the guys on short time but how’s that fair to them ? Furloughed will mean they get 80 % of their wages

Darran

Wrong.

No profit, no company, no jobs.

I’ve furloughed everyone. However, I’m out working again.

There’s rent, public liability, employers liability, plant insurance, accountant fees, banking fees, van insurances, van taxes, phone contracts, web hosting, retained HS consultant fees (ironic?) etc.,......there’s loads more.

Do you

[Smudger]

Do I what?

Staff - furloughed - if you rent a unit you will get a 10k grant

Yes there are other bills to cover but vat has been moved, some insurance frozen, my wages will be at 80% as per the staff - on the plus side no fuel is being used - so what your saying I things are so tight I your business that it can’t afford to be shut down, even with a grant and your staffs wages covered ?

My point regarding H&S is simple - should for example a worker fell off a roof while cleaning it’s not an excuse to say well your honour my guy had to climb on the roof because there was no profit in me hiring the correct safety equipment 

We all need to make money, however that has to be done secondary to the safety of your staff, when your self employed our quite entitled to  take “risks”

Darran

[Ooooooog]

Do I what?

Staff - furloughed - if you rent a unit you will get a 10k grant



Darran

We don’t qualify for the grant.

[Ooooooog]

Normal working at heights rams apply.  Not sure why you used that comparison.
We pay a months wages next week. Hopefully the government will come good on the 80%......

[Smudger]

I used that because this was the argument several years ago, you wouldn’t think twice now about making sure your staff were safe, the virus is the same, sending them out door to door for non essential work IS putting profit ahead of h&s

Are you sub letting ?

Darran

[Slacky]

I saw a window cleaning van today, two guys in it.

Not really social distancing is it.

[Ooooooog]

I used that because this was the argument several years ago, you wouldn’t think twice now about making sure your staff were safe, the virus is the same, sending them out door to door for non essential work IS putting profit ahead of h&s

Are you sub letting ?

Darran

We rent a unit off a local farmer. VAT is paid on the unit. Seems we’re excluded from any state aid.
Plenty of work coming in though.

[DrewHastings]

I saw a window cleaning van today, two guys in it.

Not really social distancing is it.

I know a delivery driver who works as a drayman. He works for one of the national delivery companies, and has a 'mate' to help unload etc.
The mate now has to travel in a car, following the lorry, and is no longer allowed in the cab.

[Missing Link]

I saw a window cleaning van today, two guys in it.

Not really social distancing is it.

They might be gay lovers who live in the same household and work together too?

It's the 21st Century.

[Lee Pryor]

I would sack the person refusing to work and give the job to someone who has just lost everything through no fault of their own. There's plenty of them out there. People are queuing up for jobs.

[dazmond]

I would sack the person refusing to work and give the job to someone who has just lost everything through no fault of their own. There's plenty of them out there. People are queuing up for jobs.

i agree.....some people need to man up IMO.........

[Simon Trapani]

I saw a window cleaning van today, two guys in it.

Not really social distancing is it.

Could have been me - I had my 15 year old son with me today. We live in the same household.

[CleanClear]

I saw a window cleaning van today, two guys in it.

Not really social distancing is it.

I know a delivery driver who works as a drayman. He works for one of the national delivery companies, and has a 'mate' to help unload etc.
The mate now has to travel in a car, following the lorry, and is no longer allowed in the cab.

You mentioned "drayman", there no pubs open ?