[Crystal-clear]

Question.
Not my situation but I'm purely curious.
As everyone is aware some business owners close some business owners carry on as normal in our industry.

So Example you're choosing to carry on as normal
Staff member is blatantly honest and says he doesn't want to put himself and others at risk
And is delusional that you should pay him 80% for nothing as the government going to pay it.


It wouldn't put it past me if someone on this forum had a similar scenario let us know if so.
How do you think one could realistically handle this?

Because handing off a P45 for being scared of covid 19 could potentially be risky likewise if you have a low balance sheet you generally won't be able to pay in which case it could be a messy conundrum.

[windowswashed]

Any decent employer would rather furlough an employee so they at least get 80percent of their wage rather than receiving a p45 and being forced to sign on with universal credit and virtually nothing overnight.
My sister runs a shop and had to furlough her staff, difficult decision, but when life returns to normal at least she still has her employees instead of stabbing them in the back with P45's.

[Crystal-clear]

Any decent employer would rather furlough an employee so they at least get 80percent of their wage rather than receiving a p45 and being forced to sign on with universal credit and virtually nothing overnight.
My sister runs a shop and had to furlough her staff, difficult decision, but when life returns to normal at least she still has her employees instead of stabbing them in the back with P45's.

Totally agree with that however my ex has just told me she has made redundant recently the company's business came to a halt only 20 staff small in the grand scheme of things yet no offer of the 80% furlough.
I think some employees don't want to risk it in case they do not get the Grant it's not guaranteed.

also in regards to the original question the boss is not wanting to make the staff furlough he wants to continue to work as normal the staff member does not want to work through his choice therefore I don't think that grant is an option.

I wonder how the situation could be handled especially if the company has a low balance sheet

[deeege]

Question.
Not my situation but I'm purely curious.
As everyone is aware some business owners close some business owners carry on as normal in our industry.

So Example you're choosing to carry on as normal
Staff member is blatantly honest and says he doesn't want to put himself and others at risk
And is delusional that you should pay him 80% for nothing as the government going to pay it.


It wouldn't put it past me if someone on this forum had a similar scenario let us know if so.
How do you think one could realistically handle this?

Because handing off a P45 for being scared of covid 19 could potentially be risky likewise if you have a low balance sheet you generally won't be able to pay in which case it could be a messy conundrum.

Why wouldn’t they furlough him? Some people are genuinely very scared of catching this virus, not to mention he could have close family members at home who are high risk.

The government scheme has been set up for situations like this has it not?

[Kev Martin]

Any decent employer would rather furlough an employee so they at least get 80percent of their wage rather than receiving a p45 and being forced to sign on with universal credit and virtually nothing overnight.
My sister runs a shop and had to furlough her staff, difficult decision, but when life returns to normal at least she still has her employees instead of stabbing them in the back with P45's.

Totally agree with that however my ex has just told me she has made redundant recently the company's business came to a halt only 20 staff small in the grand scheme of things yet no offer of the 80% furlough.
I think some employees don't want to risk it in case they do not get the Grant it's not guaranteed.

also in regards to the original question the boss is not wanting to make the staff furlough he wants to continue to work as normal the staff member does not want to work through his choice therefore I don't think that grant is an option.

I wonder how the situation could be handled especially if the company has a low balance sheet

It is very difficult for employers.  I don't think there are a lot of you who are self employed who have grasped what is going on if you are employer or an employee.  To furlough staff at 80% the employer must make up the other 20% or the employer only receives 80% of the so called 80%.  This means in reality that the HMRC and DWP still get their tax and NI up to £2500. 
So let us assume I furlough staff who are for ease we will say £2000 per month.  I will POTENTIALLY get £1600 if I pay them the additional £400 if not I would only get £1280 which is 80% of the 80% so I still need to give them £320 and they will still pay Tax and NI. on the whole £1600 and I will pay employers contributions pro rata.  We have currently lost 98% of Trade Sales for ancillaries and a 100% of machine sales.  However, our on line sales have increased.  So if I furlough all staff that means I contribute 20% for those staff to sit at home and I have no workers.  If I furlough some of them how do you choose?  Or do I go in with my family - (I am currently self isolating by the way) all work our socks off for no wages and pay the staff 20% plus NI and pension to sit at home???

[TomCrowther]

One of my customers is in the same situation. He has three v busy takeaways. 80 odd staff and fifty of them are refusing to work. He has enough willing staff to run one shop.
He hasn’t been told to shut and there is no guarantee he will get cash from the government.  Horrible situation.

[Slacky]

If the employee only recieves 80% of the 80% so be it. Thats life. Its tough for everyone.

Show me someone who is dis-satisfied with that in the current climate.

[simon w]

Depends on the employee situation itself really. There are plenty of employees who'd use ANY opportunity to down tools and throw a spanner in the works for a employers business. So on a personal level if I had a sniff that this was the case, that the employee was using this situation to stay at home sitting on their arse and getting paid I'd be keen to get rid asap. Also if your business is still working and you need that employee carrying out their work then from a practical point of view you need to be hiring someone else to do their job.

If however you know this employee well and they are a good hard working member of your business and you know that their motives are genuine then perhaps consider the furlough root if your business can support this. End of day small businesses can be very fragile so if an employee needs to be sacrificed in order not to go under then I know what direction I'd take.

Sounds harsh but that's life/business. 

[simon w]

One of my customers is in the same situation. He has three v busy takeaways. 80 odd staff and fifty of them are refusing to work. He has enough willing staff to run one shop.
He hasn’t been told to shut and there is no guarantee he will get cash from the government.  Horrible situation.

I wonder how many of those 50 are out doing cash in hand work on the sly because it suits them more than working in a take away?

[Soupy]

If the employee only recieves 80% of the 80% so be it. Thats life. Its tough for everyone.

Show me someone who is dis-satisfied with that in the current climate.

He's wrong. The government is covering the total cost of furlough. Including employer's NI and pensions.

If the employer only got 80% of the 80% nobody would do it. Sad but true.

[Soupy]

[G Griffin]

Question.
Not my situation but I'm purely curious.
As everyone is aware some business owners close some business owners carry on as normal in our industry.

So Example you're choosing to carry on as normal
Staff member is blatantly honest and says he doesn't want to put himself and others at risk
And is delusional that you should pay him 80% for nothing as the government going to pay it.


It wouldn't put it past me if someone on this forum had a similar scenario let us know if so.
How do you think one could realistically handle this?

Because handing off a P45 for being scared of covid 19 could potentially be risky likewise if you have a low balance sheet you generally won't be able to pay in which case it could be a messy conundrum.

It's up to you to pay him. What is he delusional about?
And what is it that he wants for not working?

[DrewHastings]

Its up to the employer to furlough, not the employee.

If the employee is in an at risk group, then the employer should make amendments or furlough (but doesn't have to).

If the employee is refusing to work, then the employer is well within his rights to not pay them, and place them onto non-paid holiday.

If the business is able to continue, and the employee cannot work from home, then the employee does not have a leg to stand on.

[deeege]

Its up to the employer to furlough, not the employee.

If the employee is in an at risk group, then the employer should make amendments or furlough (but doesn't have to).

If the employee is refusing to work, then the employer is well within his rights to not pay them, and place them onto non-paid holiday.

If the business is able to continue, and the employee cannot work from home, then the employee does not have a leg to stand on.

Good luck with that.

[Soupy]

Its up to the employer to furlough, not the employee.

If the employee is in an at risk group, then the employer should make amendments or furlough (but doesn't have to).

If the employee is refusing to work, then the employer is well within his rights to not pay them, and place them onto non-paid holiday.

If the business is able to continue, and the employee cannot work from home, then the employee does not have a leg to stand on.

Good luck with that.

Pretty sure Michael Gove said, in an address to the nation, that if you felt you were being sent to work and it was unsafe; you should report your employer to the daily record.

[G Griffin]

It's always a good idea to go to The Daily Record first.

What's your next move, Soupy?

[Soupy]

It's always a good idea to go to The Daily Record first.

What's your next move, Soupy?

Don't know. I'm going to phone every employee on Friday, see what they say and take it from there. I've bought masks and sanitiser and got all the vehicles prepared and ready to roll but I doubt we'll be out on Monday.

[andyM]

Don't know. I'm going to phone every employee on Friday, see what they say and take it from there. I've bought masks and sanitiser and got all the vehicles prepared and ready to roll but I doubt we'll be out on Monday.

Easter Bank Holiday innit?

[Soupy]

Don't know. I'm going to phone every employee on Friday, see what they say and take it from there. I've bought masks and sanitiser and got all the vehicles prepared and ready to roll but I doubt we'll be out on Monday.

Easter Bank Holiday innit?

 

My normal policy is; if you want a bank holiday, get a job in a bank.

[G Griffin]

It's always a good idea to go to The Daily Record first.

What's your next move, Soupy?

Don't know. I'm going to phone every employee on Friday, see what they say and take it from there. I've bought masks and sanitiser and got all the vehicles prepared and ready to roll but I doubt we'll be out on Monday.

It'll be interesting to see what 'gov' come out with next.
I can't see what else you can do, really.
Good luck with it.