[Ned Kelly]

Got to a job the other day and realised I had left my microsplitter on the driveway at home. Had a pretty grubby polyprop to clean and the only thing I had in the van with a highish PH was a sample of F90.  Mixed it up with a couple of boosters and pre sprayed and brushed it in to the carpet. Extracted with F90 in the tank also and I got one super clean carpet. Can you use Formula 90 as a stand alone pre spray in place of the many microsplitters out there?

[Mike Halliday]

Yes, alltec used to sell their ultimate master detergent  as a prespray and rinse  it won’t be the best prespray but it will do the job at a push

[john martin]

There's no micro splitter ...it's a nonsense term from the home of carpet cleaning nonsense .. clean talk .   Search micro splitter on TMF ..the world's biggest forum ... They wouldn't know what your talking about .
It's just a bit of  basic detergent powder.
Yes your f90 will be better .

[Ned Kelly]

Thanks for the replies guys. As still a relative newbie to the industry I have noticed a difference when using products like Enzall compared to microsplitters. Always feel like I've got to use boosters  with the microsplitters. Used the last of my Enzall (ordered more now) on a stinking DFS sofa on Monday and the results were amazing!! The second I agitated it with my drill brush after prespraying, the sofa just popped back to life. Never had that same effect when using microsplittters.

[dustee]

So whats the difference between clean talk & amtech IE micro splitters or is it personal

Just asking

[john martin]

So whats the difference between clean talk & amtech IE micro splitters or is it personal

Just asking

HI , it dosnt matter who is using the name  ... microsplitter   ,  the whole deception is a lie .
Its pretending to be some hitec modern alternative product  ...  but when u examine the contents  , its just common detergent ingredients used in the most low tech of detergents .
The word itself is just plucked out of thin air  ...   
The plain microsplitter ... is just phosphate dissolved in water  ... ( phosphate is found in many detergents ( including f90)
Other products in ' microsplitter ' range   ...    like Amtech extreme ....   just add another detergent chemical  ( Sodium Metasilicate) to the phosphate and presto ...  its a different product  ,   again Sodium Metasilicate is a very common detergent ingredient found in many carpet cleaning products .   ( on the amtech extreme msds , they use the german word for Sodium Metasilicate to further shield the truth )

Whats wrong with microsplitters ... nothing  , as long as you realise your being ripped off for the most crude and basic detergent indredients with an inflated price  , pretending to be something theyre not .

Any decent cleaning products ..  f90 mor others ... will be a blend of six or seven chemical components , (including the ones in ' microsplitter )   each adding to the efficiency of the overall product .

[john martin]

How did it all come to be .... you might ask
A brief history  ...  the 70s or 80s  ... there was some soapy foamy junky products used by the cleaning industry
a german guy came up with a simple product called ' one step '  ... he claimed green credientials and no harmfull foam etc  ....
the product gained some traction .  ( as it turned out it was just phosphate )    ( which of course is not even very green )

After that ... some investers took interest ( there was some american bankrupt guy looking for the next good thing )   its sold into the uk ...   some of the guys from amtech and NIck cleantalk squabble over it  ...  as its cheap as chips to make a high margin ...
at some point its called microsplitter ...   
Anyway they are all used car salesmen not scientists  , and they sold the comcept  to gulable cleaners through the forums mainly .

[Ned Kelly]

I've had a look through some of the big suppliers in the USA and there are absolutely no mention of the term "microsplitters" in their products. Are the yanks missing out on some ground breaking chemistry here?  If F90 is a detergent that cleans carpets (as a pre spray ) what exactly makes a "microsplitter" any better. As a relative newbie still to the industry I'm intrigued  by this.

[Mike Halliday]

I use microspitters as my prespray, it’s the only prespray I carry on the van, I use it for everything HWE, upholstery & bonneting.

Without being boastful i’m A brilliant carpet cleaner😎😎  I pretty much know everything their is to know about all aspect of cleaning carpets & fabrics, i’ve been doing it a very long time. I first started about 20yrs a go using ‘microsplitters’ (the One step that John mentioned)

So why do I use such an ‘ineffective’  pre-spray?

I’m sat now in Mc Donald’s just drinking a coffee before hitting the streets leafleting so will fully answer my own qUestion when I get home.

But I will just give a few things to think about....

Why can it be used for bonneting?
Why would I spray it in my eyes & mouth (with no ill effects)  (this sound really weird but it’s quite an interesting point)

Post more when I get home😊😊

[Ned Kelly]

I'm no chemist and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I think dirt is in acidic form and generally speaking you need an alkaline to clean(although not always wool,encap etc.) so if a product like Formula 90 which has a ph around the 10 mark and a product like SPM( or any other microsplitter) which is around the same, what active ingredient in SPM makes it better than Formula 90? Also, surely all the chemicals we use have passed stringent safety checks to make sure they are safe to use on our customers carpets and our own health.!! Should I tell my wife not to use the lovely powdered detergent  we use to clean our clothes and now use microsplitters because it may be safer?

[john martin]

Mike , is it possible your results are a bit dull because of the MS. So people don't get back to u . Perhaps some good chemicals, more repeats, you won't have to go leafleting .   

[Mike Halliday]

Mike , is it possible your results are a bit dull because of the MS. So people don't get back to u . Perhaps some good chemicals, more repeats, you won't have to go leafleting .   

John You might be  right

Ned your post show you definitely are not a chemist and using the washing machine example shows  a very limited understanding of cleaning chemistry, you will use the ‘washing your hair’ analogy next

Let’s start at the beginning and answer the question at the very beginning of this post, why not use a formula90 (a detergent) as a  Pre-spray.

What is the basic difference between a pre-spray and a detergent? One is designed to be left on a carpet the other is designed to be removed.

A  pre-spray has chemicals within its make up that cannot be left on a carpet,  pre-sprays are meant  to be rinsed off the carpet because of this they can contain more active, aggressive chemicals.  They should when used correctly not come in contact with the homeowner.

Detergents are the opposite,  they are designed to be harmless and because we never recover 100% of the solution we use they will be left on the carpet and come into contact with whoever uses the carpet ( the homeowners,  small children, pets etc..etc) this is why detergents will never be as effective as dedicated  pre-sprays they cannot contain anything that is harmful or causes the carpet to re-soil quicker.

So detergent is ok to be left on the carpet pre-sprays have to be removed

can anyone tell me that they remove 100% of the pre-spray they put on the carpet? And if so how do they know? Do people think that going across a carpet with a wand spraying an acid rinse or formula 90 actually removes all the pre-spray they put down? I’ve seen carpet cleaners using a Hydraforce putting massive amounts of pre-spray on a carpet no way are they rinsing it all out. So most carpet cleaners leave a massive cocktail of chemicals on the customers carpet not only pre-spray but they spray a load of detergent on as well leaving the carpet a virtual cesspit of carcinogenic chemicals!

So what if you use a pre-spray that is perfectly harmless if doesn’t get completely removed, that is perfectly safe to leave on the carpet? Would this not be better?

Now imagine if during the in-house quote you explain to a potential homeowner what I have just typed above asking them what they would prefer.

[Ned Kelly]

Thanks for all that Mike 👍 That's me chucking all my Enzall and Formula 90 in the bin(is that safe?) and buying some SPM 😂

[john martin]

Mike , the definition of a detergent is as loose as hell  ...   it can simply be  '    a chemical substance in the form of a powder or a liquid for removing dirt from clothes, dishes, etc  ( cambridge dictionary )

nearly all presprays will fall into a broad definition of detergent  ...   to differentiate them causes confusion .

yes , there are agressive detergents specifically designed to be sprayed and removed quickly  ...  there are others that wont harm anything if not thoroughly rinced . 

as for carcinogens  ...   you would have to go through all the products and their components and single out what you consider carcinogenic .
Strict standards have to be met these days so chances are none of them are carcinogenic ...   or they are not carcinogenic within their intended use .     Might be different if you were consuming large amounts of it every day ... then lots of things are potentially carcinogenic .

 

[Ned Kelly]

That's me pulled the Enzall and Formula 90 back out the bin...thanks John 👍 😂

[Mike Halliday]

John you're right about the   Carcenigenic nature of the chemicals we use.  my use of the word was slightly tongue in cheek hence the winky face emoji  although Chemspec have in the past had to alter their recipe for different solutions  to comply with the California rules on banned chemicals

But if you read the instructions all HWE pre-sprays & most spotting agents have to be rinsed off the carpet why is this? If they are harmless and do no harm leave them on why bother rinsing?

IMO The safest & most  professional  option will always be to leave the carpet as chemical free as possible.

Ned enzall and F90 are brilliant chemicals I believe F90 is the most popular detergent in the world. My point is that’s its not as black & white as it first seams and having the knowledge of our industries chemistry (so we can make informed decisions) is always a good thing.

[Ned Kelly]

Thanks Mike and John for your posts, two different views but the two of you obviously know your stuff. Mike, I'm interested if you ever used products like Enzall, Soil Break Formula 90 etc. and if you did was it a purely safety reason why you stopped?

[Mike Halliday]

I still use them I carry all sorts on the van,  in the end I will use whatever I can to do the best job possible

[Ned Kelly]

Think your right Mike, "horses for courses" and all that. Think as carpet cleaners we're always looking for the "holy grail" chemical that will do all things for all situations, especially guys like myself who have only been going a couple of years in the industry. I'll keep on using microsplitters for light to medium soiled carpets. I have tried most now and have settled for Cleansmarts Split-X mixed with the boosters Orange-X and Active-X which does the business and the PH is a bit lower than other brands so I've no worries about using it on a dirty wool carpet. But my rudimentary knowledge of carpet cleaning chemistry ( which you quite rightly highlighted ) tells me that all microsplitters really are, are just watered down versions of the big guns and if this wasn't the case then big companies like Chemspec,TMF etc. would have their own version of them long ago ( if they do I stand corrected) and if I really have to clean manky carpets properly I really need products like Enzall, Soil Break, Formula 90 etc to get great results.

[john martin]

Ned  ,  the orange X looks good  , i would use that if i used cleansmart products  ...       orange X  and some active X mixed in hot water you'v got a potent prespray  ,  i wouldnt bother adding  the microsplitter as activex already had a builder included , sodium carbonate .
Good to have f90 in the tank also ... but could be added to the above prespray mix too .

The chemspec equivilant to orange X would be ' heavy duty soil lifter '  and the active X would be ' energizer '   
you cant go wrong with either , the cleansmart version looks lower cost/better value ... as long as they are diluting it at a similar ratio .