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dustee

  • Posts: 274
Encap
« on: November 09, 2018, 11:15:14 pm »
Is encapping a viable option for domestics , seeing as most encap products have come on a long way

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 10320
Re: Encap
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 07:10:39 am »
Encap is not a viable option for anything apart from fooling customer into paying money for pretend cleaning.

Let’s be honest it either spreads the dirt evenly around the carpet so it look more uniformly cleaner  or it pushes it deaper into the pile so the customer can not see it ( we could also mention optical manipulation as well but let’s keep it simple)

How many customer would allow encap cleaning ( either commercial or domestic) if you explained exactly what encap does? Or more relevant what it does’nt do which is remove any dirt
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Encap
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 11:06:45 am »
All systems are viable options depending on type and level of soiling, they all remove soil in there own way. Dry granules absorb soil out Encap will either be absorbed out with bonnets or vacuumed when dry. Hot water extraction rinsed out etc. None of these systems will remove 100% of the soil in the carpet, be it a truck mount or bex bissel.
As far as what customers want, they go by price, quality of service, personality, salesmanship and anything else that makes an impression on them, just the same as carpet cleaning manufacturers trying to sell you there different processes.
And good luck with trying to clean certain carpets with hot water extraction.



Glynn

  • Posts: 1086
Re: Encap
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 01:13:44 pm »
I think Mikes spot on, and we all know it  - really don't we.
Regards
Glynn

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 10320
Re: Encap
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 01:38:06 pm »
Encap is the only cleaning method ( and I use that term losely) where you leave the carpet dirtier when you finish than when you start. To clean a carpet your task is to remove any foreign matter from the carpet, encap does the exact opposite it puts more foreign matter into the carpet, it put a chemical on the carpet   that was not there  before.

The idea that soil is encapsulated in a way that it breaks off the fibre when vacuumed is so full of faults it becomes ludicrous.

I have read on this forum many times of people who have cut open vacuum bags looking for this encapsulated soil it does not happen In the real world (maybe in a laboratory under perfect conditions)  but not in an office in Luton..... with the vacuuming been done by Holga with a 20yr old Numatic that is still using the same vacuum bag
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

dustee

  • Posts: 274
Re: Encap
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 09:21:37 pm »
Interesting and straight to the point ( Mike )
Just looking at different options as the market in this area and many more I imagine are saturated with the I can clean a carpet for a tenner brigade , ok so they don't last long but when one go's another two spring up so looking at the encap route IE a niche market that's maybe viable

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Encap
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2018, 10:45:58 pm »
Unfortunately Mike unless you have any conclusive proof and tests on the matter and not what Joe Bloggs the carpet cleaner has said, it is irrelevant,  just the same as any other cleaning system. If the so called reputable carpet cleaning suppliers and distributors are promoting and selling these products, which they are, then who is really doing the industry a disservice. Carpet cleaners are not scientists, and most of the systems are endorsed by the recognised trade bodies for our industry.

MarkSutcliffe

  • Posts: 159
Re: Encap
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2018, 11:28:51 pm »
Encapping does work, I've cleaned a carpet, gone back and vacuumed it 2 days later and it's much cleaner than before..

I've also vac'd the bads a few days after and the soil comes away.. 

I really doubt all these major companies selling encap products are doing so on false terms.

However your sterotypical cleaner probably spends 3 minutes vaccing a room and there lies the issue.  I've encapped roughly 50 domestic carpets this year, I've only had one complaint who refused to pay, and when i went back to hwe it 3 days later, he refused to open the door, despite agreeing I would go back. Speaks volumes...

Have you thought of the texatherm system, its a mix of both and works well. Thais what i use.

JandS

  • Posts: 3738
Re: Encap
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 02:07:36 pm »
Used to do someone's carpets in dining and living room about once every 8 months so quite regular.
I asked her onetime if I could try an alternative cleaning system...encap...to which she agreed....we both agreed afterwards that the carpet looked a lot better and it did.
When she rang for the next time she asked me to do them the "old way".......they looked good for about a week she said whereas with the hwe the look lasted a lot longer.

Elfyn

  • Posts: 410
Re: Encap
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 05:37:08 pm »
I gree with Mike on this. There's no substitute to extracting the chems and dirt out of the carpet.

dustee

  • Posts: 274
Re: Encap
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 09:25:56 pm »
Still non the wiser 
Mark  could you tell me more on the texatherm system  or if I could give you a bell

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4390
Re: Encap
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 10:18:37 pm »
Put it this way, most people who ring a carpet cleaner do so in the expectation of getting their carpet ‘cleaned’ and not to simply having the dirt rearranged.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4390
Re: Encap
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 08:54:55 am »
I think the people who choose encap  for domestic probably do so 1 in blind ignorance of its capabilities and 2 because it’s dirt cheap to tool up for (excuse the pun)

And then if you’re operating  at the bottom end of the market where it’s  all about who is cheapest then your going to come across lots of very soiled carpets, the very type of job that encap definitely is not designed for. And if our first objective in business to have satisfied customers, you’re on  a sticky wicket there (quite literally) and the second objective being business building, then you’re up the proverbial creek without a  carpet CLEANING machine.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 10320
Re: Encap
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 12:18:25 pm »
The marketing of encap chemicals by manufacturers should be incredibly easy, in the words of Tom Cruise.....”SHOW ME THE MONEEEEY!!!” Or in our case .....”show me the dirt”

The argument against encapsulation has not changed in 25yrs, it does not vacuum out of the carpet in real life situations, it might crystallise in a Petra dish on a laboratory desk but on carpet fibres it’s a different story.

So why don’t the manufactures shut up all the non believers by showing the vacced up soil from a real office , encap an office carpet, vacced up the soil, then cut open the bag and show the dirt. Get an independent test authority to do the testing so It’s impartial

IT’S THATS EASY !!  This simple test would prove the method works but why has it not been done? (We all know the answer)

Look at the protection chemicals, if anyone doubts they work you will find lots of videos, photos & test  by companies showing proof that they do what they say.... no one doubts these chemicals.  it’s just as easy to test encap chemicals but no one will do it
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4390
Re: Encap
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2018, 02:59:09 pm »


This is a job we have just done. Not filthy carpet by any means , but well beyond the capabilities of encap. But just for the sake of argument you had encapped it, where would all the dirt go. We put it down the drain.



Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Encap
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 12:20:13 am »
Simon I think you are missing the point, nobody said you should use encap for an extremely soiled carpet, every job is different, use a system based on soil conditions, time constraints, ease of access etc. Mike stated that customers were being ripped off by the use of encap systems in general. If this statement is correct then the manufacturers and distributors are ripping off there customers, ie: carpet cleaners.
To say that carpet cleaners are blind and ignorant is a bit far fetched considering these systems are endorsed by our own trade associations.

Robin Ray

  • Posts: 1183
Re: Encap
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 08:56:52 am »
Isn't encapping just another tool in the carpet cleaning tool box? You don't see carpenters who only use nails. There are appropriate times to use all systems of cleaning and if you have them all then you cant go wrong.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4390
Re: Encap
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 11:17:36 am »
Simon I think you are missing the point, nobody said you should use encap for an extremely soiled carpet, every job is different, use a system based on soil conditions, time constraints, ease of access etc. Mike stated that customers were being ripped off by the use of encap systems in general. If this statement is correct then the manufacturers and distributors are ripping off there customers, ie: carpet cleaners.
To say that carpet cleaners are blind and ignorant is a bit far fetched considering these systems are endorsed by our own trade associations.

Derek,
I agree with the majority of your points.
I think of encap as a tool, one of many I have so that I can cope with pretty much everything I come across.
We do encapping in certain situations, we even have a Cimex R48 for that very purpose, so I am not dead set against it .

What I am against is people trying to use encap across the board as their one and only process, which is a joke.

MarkSutcliffe

  • Posts: 159
Re: Encap
« Reply #18 on: Today at 10:46:35 pm »
I tried it as my only way, it didnt work out..

Been there tried it, hands up admit that..

However, I havent come across one yet that texatherm doesn't sort, but that isnt encap, it's a totally different method.