[dazmond]

Yeh but having an emergency fund is not really the point.

I have a few grand i can get my hands on that i COULD pay the bills with if i really needed to, but i dont want to be spending my savings or credit cards/loans etc on paying bills, that money should be for holidays, investments etc etc.

I would hate to have saved up 10 grand and then break a leg or be snowed in for 3 months and have to blow it all

But what the recent weather has made me realise more than anything is  that this isnt the most stable business in the world.

I did go out and clean some windows today btw, went out 12-4 and sat out a few showers and did something

so you ve got nothing to moan about then adam!

i bet theres been days this year where you could ve worked but you ve binned it off.its all about having the right attitude,being organised, strong self motivation,grit and determination IMO.

I bet you ve sacked the gym off too...........

[Marc Stock]

Saving for a rainy day is all very well but you also have to remember as a sole trader you have the dreaded payments on account to find, which in itself can be a challenge.

Say as a sole trader your profits are £40k for that year. (Daz??)

So your total self employment tax liability is likely to be around the 9k mark (for everything including ni etc). So already you need put away £750 a month just for the tax . But thats not all, no.

That 9k bill is likely to have an additional payment on account charge for the current tax year which is normally half again which is due when you make your 9k £4500 plus. £9000 is £13,500 so now your looking at putting away £1125 per month just to pay your upcoming liabilities before the January deadline.

And of course they will want 2nd payment on account in the July of £4500 so in one year your needing to find 18k to cover your future tax liabilities for the forthcoming year which is £1500 a month.

Daz i hope you are taking notice if you are clearing 4k+ per month as a self employed individual be very careful that this doesnt catch you out.

[Stoots]

Saving for a rainy day is all very well but you also have to remember as a sole trader you have the dreaded payments on account to find, which in itself can be a challenge.

Say as a sole trader your profits are £40k for that year. (Daz??)

So your total self employment tax liability is likely to be around the 9k mark (for everything including ni etc). So already you need put away £750 a month just for the tax . But thats not all, no.

That 9k bill is likely to have an additional payment on account charge for the current tax year which is normally half again which is due when you make your 9k £4500 plus. £9000 is £13,500 so now your looking at putting away £1125 per month just to pay your upcoming liabilities before the January deadline.

And of course they will want 2nd payment on account in the June of £4500 so in one year your needing to find 18k to cover your future tax liabilities for the forthcoming year which is £1500 a month.

Daz i hope you are taking notice if you are clearing 4k+ per month as a self employed individual be very careful that this doesnt catch you out.

mark, can you explain what all this payment on account is about?

up until now i have submitted my tax return in april and the self assesment site shows me what is due by next jan 31st

is it more complicated than than? am i missing something?

i will add that i have been keeping my tax bill very low by re investing a lot of profit back into the business.

im thinking of going ltd in april so will then get an accountant

[Marc Stock]

Saving for a rainy day is all very well but you also have to remember as a sole trader you have the dreaded payments on account to find, which in itself can be a challenge.

Say as a sole trader your profits are £40k for that year. (Daz??)

So your total self employment tax liability is likely to be around the 9k mark (for everything including ni etc). So already you need put away £750 a month just for the tax . But thats not all, no.

That 9k bill is likely to have an additional payment on account charge for the current tax year which is normally half again which is due when you make your 9k £4500 plus. £9000 is £13,500 so now your looking at putting away £1125 per month just to pay your upcoming liabilities before the January deadline.

And of course they will want 2nd payment on account in the June of £4500 so in one year your needing to find 18k to cover your future tax liabilities for the forthcoming year which is £1500 a month.

Daz i hope you are taking notice if you are clearing 4k+ per month as a self employed individual be very careful that this doesnt catch you out.

mark, can you explain what all this payment on account is about?

up until now i have submitted my tax return in april and the self assesment site shows me what is due by next jan 31st

is it more complicated than than? am i missing something?

i will add that i have been keeping my tax bill very low by re investing a lot of profit back into the business.

im thinking of going ltd in april so will then get an accountant

https://www.gov.uk/understand-self-assessment-bill/payments-on-account

If you want to reinvest money into your business, id look at going ltd asap tbh.

Sole trader accounts isnt detailed enough and you dont have an accountant to back you up. Its your word against hmrc im afraid.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

As long as you put aside the right amount in a pot at the end of each months earnings for your tax bill you should be ok even with paying on account in January and July.

So come April 2018 you would have saved what you owe for tax year 17-18.   You don't need to make payment till Jan 2019.  So you should by then have enough in your pot to pay what's left of your 17-18 tax bill plus half of 18-19 bill (you're already over half way through 18-19 tax year).  The second half of the bill is settled in July 2019 which is  4 months after the 18-19 year end. 

So in a nut shell year on year you're paying tax pretty much as you earn it rather than paying it a year later. 

[G Griffin]

Yeh but having an emergency fund is not really the point.

I have a few grand i can get my hands on that i COULD pay the bills with if i really needed to, but i dont want to be spending my savings or credit cards/loans etc on paying bills, that money should be for holidays, investments etc etc.

I would hate to have saved up 10 grand and then break a leg or be snowed in for 3 months and have to blow it all

But what the recent weather has made me realise more than anything is  that this isnt the most stable business in the world.

I did go out and clean some windows today btw, went out 12-4 and sat out a few showers and did something

Of course it's the point.
It doesn't matter what you want, Adam; you have to deal with what happens.
Nobody wants to break a leg or be off for a prolonged period due to the weather. You can't do anything about it so make the best of it.
Us 2010 veterans are still around. I remember actually enjoying the time off in the end. I looked through the curtains at night and looked forward to another lie in and day off. 

[alank]

Yes 2010 taught a lot of us, me included, a lot of hard lessons about self employment, employing cash flow etc and although up to now this winter is not as bad it's still been rough weather at times here in county Durham and no doubt a lot worse for all the lads further north. It's winter and will not last but it is easier to get through if you've put some cash away during the summer months. What I find is some things are as good as cash in the bank I ensure that bills are paid etc freezers and food cupboards are stocked up enough logs coal pet foods etc are in stock to last right through the winter and a few drinks in doesn't go amiss. It will soon be better weather chin up

[Stoots]

Yeh but having an emergency fund is not really the point.

I have a few grand i can get my hands on that i COULD pay the bills with if i really needed to, but i dont want to be spending my savings or credit cards/loans etc on paying bills, that money should be for holidays, investments etc etc.

I would hate to have saved up 10 grand and then break a leg or be snowed in for 3 months and have to blow it all

But what the recent weather has made me realise more than anything is  that this isnt the most stable business in the world.

I did go out and clean some windows today btw, went out 12-4 and sat out a few showers and did something

Of course it's the point.
It doesn't matter what you want, Adam; you have to deal with what happens.
Nobody wants to break a leg or be off for a prolonged period due to the weather. You can't do anything about it so make the best of it.
Us 2010 veterans are still around. I remember actually enjoying the time off in the end. I looked through the curtains at night and looked forward to another lie in and day off.

That's not what I meant.

It goes without saying you need some savings in reserve.

I was moaning about not being able to work and make any money and the response was why does it matter if you have some savings you are fine.

Well yes I will be fine, I'm not going to starve as I can blow my savings if I need to but thats not the point of the thread. I didn't want to have to blow my savings I want to get out and work.

A bit like saying my vans broken down and it's gonna cost 5k for a new engine but hey it doesn't matter because I have 5k saved up. Of course it matters and it not the point, my bloody vans just blown up and I've blown all my savings on fixing it and im upset.

[Dry Clean]

Your going to have problems if you treat window cleaning as a 9 to 5  forty hour week job, set a yearly target divide it by 52 weeks
and work from there, if your short one week just make it up further down the line, at the end of the day if you want to work in all
weather conditions then that's up to you but if you need to work in all weather conditions just to make ends meet then your running  way to close to the wire, the same goes if your not in the position to make up the shortfall later on.
Anything you make above your weekly target isn't savings its wages for another day.

[Johnny B]

There is nothing anyone can do about bad weather. So that gives us 3 choices:

1. Work in it.
2. Don't work in it.
3. Quit altogether and do something else.

John

[Stoots]

There is nothing anyone can do about bad weather. So that gives us 3 choices:

1. Work in it.
2. Don't work in it.
3. Quit altogether and do something else.

John

Or option 4. Moan about it and sometimes work in and sometimes don't 

[Stoots]

Your going to have problems if you treat window cleaning as a 9 to 5  forty hour week job, set a yearly target divide it by 52 weeks
and work from there, if your short one week just make it up further down the line, at the end of the day if you want to work in all
weather conditions then that's up to you but if you need to work in all weather conditions just to make ends meet then your running  way to close to the wire, the same goes if your not in the position to make up the shortfall later on.
Anything you make above your weekly target isn't savings its wages for another day.

Cheers.

Yes I think  I may be too close to the wire.

So that means I either need to increase income via employing or reduce expenditure or ideally both as like you say you can't rely on getting out 5 days a week.

[Johnny B]

There is nothing anyone can do about bad weather. So that gives us 3 choices:

1. Work in it.
2. Don't work in it.
3. Quit altogether and do something else.

John

Or option 4. Moan about it and sometimes work in and sometimes don't 

Yes I forgot that one! 😂

[Marc Stock]

Keep on going.

For me this is a crunch time year. Im either making it happen by employing or its Adios amigos

[Johnny B]

Do you have enough work just for yourself at the moment Adam?

I am in this game a long time (21 years) and have employed in the past, so can speak from experience.

Before you employ, you need to be overflowed with work and earning very comfortably or at least be stable regarding cash flow, taking into account downtime caused either within or outside your control.

Please take what I am about to say as constructive, because I mean it that way: are you ready to take on the extra responsibility, financial pressures and aggravation that goes along with employing when you are currently facing a situation at the moment which is clearly causing you some grief? To include an employee in the mix when faced with this same situation further down the line isn't going to make it easier for you, so my humble advice is to give very serious consideration to where you are now, where you want to be and the steps you need to take to get there.

In the meantime, keep your chin up, window cleaning in winter time when the weather is against you can be tough, but we've all been there and come through it, and we still keep going.

Take one day at a time. Hang in there and you'll come through it stronger.

John

[Og]

Wise words.

[Marc Stock]

Do you have enough work just for yourself at the moment Adam?

I am in this game a long time (21 years) and have employed in the past, so can speak from experience.

Before you employ, you need to be overflowed with work and earning very comfortably or at least be stable regarding cash flow, taking into account downtime caused either within or outside your control.

Please take what I am about to say as constructive, because I mean it that way: are you ready to take on the extra responsibility, financial pressures and aggravation that goes along with employing when you are currently facing a situation at the moment which is clearly causing you some grief? To include an employee in the mix when faced with this same situation further down the line isn't going to make it easier for you, so my humble advice is to give very serious consideration to where you are now, where you want to be and the steps you need to take to get there.

In the meantime, keep your chin up, window cleaning in winter time when the weather is against you can be tough, but we've all been there and come through it, and we still keep going.

Take one day at a time. Hang in there and you'll come through it stronger.

John

Very wise words John.

I think both Adam and I are looking to employ eventually.

I am pushing myself this year to really pack out my work. I have set myself a target of hitting 80k turnover in 15 months.

So far i have picked up another £1200 of yearly business this month. I will be posting an end of month progress soon.

How long did it take for you from deciding to expand and employ to actually seeing a genuine improvement in your income vs time on the tools?

[Stoots]

Do you have enough work just for yourself at the moment Adam?

I am in this game a long time (21 years) and have employed in the past, so can speak from experience.

Before you employ, you need to be overflowed with work and earning very comfortably or at least be stable regarding cash flow, taking into account downtime caused either within or outside your control.

Please take what I am about to say as constructive, because I mean it that way: are you ready to take on the extra responsibility, financial pressures and aggravation that goes along with employing when you are currently facing a situation at the moment which is clearly causing you some grief? To include an employee in the mix when faced with this same situation further down the line isn't going to make it easier for you, so my humble advice is to give very serious consideration to where you are now, where you want to be and the steps you need to take to get there.

In the meantime, keep your chin up, window cleaning in winter time when the weather is against you can be tough, but we've all been there and come through it, and we still keep going.

Take one day at a time. Hang in there and you'll come through it stronger.

John

Yes and no.

I don't have enough in that on paper I could fit in more. But I do have enough in that I'm 3 weeks behind schedule and can't get much done.

I'm have about 43k a year of work on paper. But in reality I've been behind for months.

That's said last year at times it was lack of effort, finishing early etc. This year it's different I decided to put my foot down and expand, last week I had a record earning week simply due to the fact I got out Mon to Friday and worked. But the week before I did about 200 quid and this week I've not done much more.

Hence the moaning, but it doesn't help I had 2 weeks off at Christmas.

Anyway I'll press on I'm sure , just naturally a pesimist.

[Stoots]

Do you have enough work just for yourself at the moment Adam?

I am in this game a long time (21 years) and have employed in the past, so can speak from experience.

Before you employ, you need to be overflowed with work and earning very comfortably or at least be stable regarding cash flow, taking into account downtime caused either within or outside your control.

Please take what I am about to say as constructive, because I mean it that way: are you ready to take on the extra responsibility, financial pressures and aggravation that goes along with employing when you are currently facing a situation at the moment which is clearly causing you some grief? To include an employee in the mix when faced with this same situation further down the line isn't going to make it easier for you, so my humble advice is to give very serious consideration to where you are now, where you want to be and the steps you need to take to get there.

In the meantime, keep your chin up, window cleaning in winter time when the weather is against you can be tough, but we've all been there and come through it, and we still keep going.

Take one day at a time. Hang in there and you'll come through it stronger.

John

Very wise words John.

I think both Adam and I are looking to employ eventually.

I am pushing myself this year to really pack out my work. I have set myself a target of hitting 80k turnover in 15 months.

So far i have picked up another £1200 of yearly business this month. I will be posting an end of month progress soon.

How long did it take for you from deciding to expand and employ to actually seeing a genuine improvement in your income vs time on the tools?

Well done mark.

I started the year with 40k and my target was 80k by the end of the year, in reality I don't think I'll make it but hope to get somewhere close.

I think I've got about another 3k a year of work since then, paid for some canvassing and picked up a few from FB ads. Closing in on 350 customers now.

I actually think I've found a suitable employee. 16 hours a week. He is supposed to be coming out for a day with me next week with a view to setting him on proper

But now I'm panicking a bit what if it all goes tits up lol. I also have all these things running round my head, I need an accountant, should I go ltd etc etc, should I re brand. I don't even know what to do. Not even sure if it's gonna be worth employing, will I hate it etc.

I'm getting stressed about something g that's not happend yet lol

[Steve Newres]

If you employ you have to work in the rain. In my opinion and experience.