[Bert Smith]

Being trying to work out how to manage accounts for business.   Is it imperative to record all your window cleaning and other small jobs for people in a day book so you can show HMRC incase of an investigation what hours you've worked and how much you took in?   I use my phone a lot and think it would make sense to use an app on that which would be backed up by google or something.   Anyone recommend a good app for the phone, also print this off from phone for your files.

    Have put all bank transfers from customers into one bank account and all things bought for the business paid out of that same account.  Am using joist software to make invoices and print these off for  a file.   


Just scared I will get caught out if there's an investigation and want everything to be in order.   I will use an accountant I think, but I still have to do all the recording myself don't I they can't do that, can they?

As my income is low from buying a van and lots of canvassing get tax credits- is it best to put this through the business bank account as well?

Just finding it all a bit daunting.  Maybe should do a small business accounts course.

An accountant I spoke to said Quickbook was good.

[nathankaye]

Im old school and i have all my customers in a book which i write out each tax year. Its segmented into eachnround i have and shows who paid and who owes.
All my business incoming and out goings are all from same account as well.
I dont keep receipts for petty spending but all my big buys ie poles, brushes scrims or whatever i keep the invoices and i purchase all online and keep the online receipts as a back up.
So i have paper and electronic records.
This is because a couple of years back my computer got a nasty virus and shut everything down plus the hardware. I lost all my online details and accounts. So i kinda keep both to be on save side but the downside is i have to take about a wk off near end of tax year to organise it all

Also ive learnt to take photos of receipts as well because of the heat transfer. So petrol receipts for instance fade after a couple of months.

[Dave Anderson]

I appreciate that I'm not in the UK but here in .NL all business are VAT registered (called BTW here).... I have used in the past george, wcp and now aworka.... its not that complicated you have a list of all your work, your expenses, vech milages, VAT charged, VAT claimed back on expenses etc..... just run the reports you need and then present them as required.

Here I send all my stuff off to the accountant annually and he then checks and verify's it for the taxman.... The accountant really is there to verify and to ensure I get back every financial perk the 'system' will allow me to have based on all the information in the numbers I present.... This is where the accountant for me earns his keep..... his knowledge of 'this, that and the other' is why he is paid.

When I was in the UK and self employed my accountant then used to say.... Its about knowing where and how to bend the rules and reg's without breaking them.

[Walter Mitty]

I dont keep receipts for petty spending but all my big buys ie poles, brushes scrims or whatever i keep the invoices and i purchase all online and keep the online receipts as a back up.

I like your post very much, Nathan, but I prefer to put even the small items through the books.  It's surprising how much they can add up to.  Things under a fiver came to about £250 one year.   That leaves about an extra £80 in my pocket.  Not a massive amount but would feed me for a month if hard pressed - or think of it as a free bag of resin even or most of a fuel tank fill up 

[Spruce]

We still use George and Pocket George.

All turnover is recorded at the end of the day. A daily report gives the total cash taken and a house cleaned without payment becomes a debt until its paid.

At the end of the tax year you asked for a total earnings report from the first to the last day of that tax year.

There is a section for daily expenses as well.

When we got George the expenses section wasn't available then, so I record all my annual expenses on a spreadsheet for that tax year.
I also work on a percentage of business to private/personal use  so I incorporate a formula to automatically work that out for me.

.

[AuRavelling79]

"George" works fine for me.

[JandS]

Pen and paper for me....never had a receipt fade on me what's that all about???

[Dry Clean]

Bert don't get too wound up about a HMRC investigation as the chances that you will ever get one are very slim (cutbacks)
but even if you do they aren't going to crucify you for a few mistakes if anything chances are they will owe you.
Just keep a record of what you earn and what you spend to earn it, you also need to hang on to them for up to 6 years.

[nathankaye]

Pen and paper for me....never had a receipt fade on me what's that all about???

Get your previous tax year receipts out and have a look, chances are some would have faded.

More and more shops and/or petrol stations are using thermal paper for receipts, saving on ink costs.
(Thermal paper has a special chemical coated on it and the receipts are stamped using heat)
You can try and use a hair dryer or an iron to try and revitalise it for tax purposes.....but ive not been successful with that and so now i take photos of them.
After taking a photo on my phone, i then take a screen shot of it. Because it reduces the mb of the file allowing me to store more pbotos. (Top tip)

[Dry Clean]

Pen and paper for me....never had a receipt fade on me what's that all about???

Get your previous tax year receipts out and have a look, chances are some would have faded.

More and more shops and/or petrol stations are using thermal paper for receipts, saving on ink costs.
(Thermal paper has a special chemical coated on it and the receipts are stamped using heat)
You can try and use a hair dryer or an iron to try and revitalise it for tax purposes.....but ive not been successful with that and so now i take photos of them.
After taking a photo on my phone, i then take a screen shot of it. Because it reduces the mb of the file allowing me to store more pbotos. (Top tip)

Nathan just get a credit card and use it for all your business transactions, it just a matter of printing your monthly statement
which will have all your spending on the same sheet/s.

[Dave Anderson]

Bert take a look at the current offers of window cleaners software ... George, WCP (no longer upated), aworka (my fav), cleaner planner - Sorry if I have missed any.

Give them all a spin and see what suits...hey you may just prefer pen and paper or perhaps a simple spreadsheet.... Horses for courses but don't over complicate the whole thing...... the complicated part is what the accountants are paid for i.e knowing the in's and outs of the tax system, loopholes, area's where you can and cannot push the rules....

If you are already VAT registered or will be soon then I suspect you'll want professional advice anyhow but our end it is not that complicated.

But do remember the taxman will pretty much know what most professions in any given region earns, spends, house type, etc, etc.... infact most professions and people will be in certain 'brackets' of the population..... stick your head out of those brackets too far and then you're looking to get an internal cavity search from HMRC.

Have a search through this forum for a plethora of back-posts, threads about software, just like strippers we'll all have our favourites just like window cleaning software

Cheers & Good Luck

[AuRavelling79]

As Dave Anderson alluded to - HMRC don't just look at what you send them, they have a whole raft of other indicators. A favourite is seeing if you spend more than you claim to earn, especially regularly.

So if Soupy buys a holiday home in the Caribbean they wouldn't bat an eyelid. If I did they would be all over me like a rash to see if I had legitimately obtained the necessary funds.

 

[Simon Trapani]

I agree Nathan. I've had plenty of receipts fade on me in the past.

[Bert Smith]

Bert don't get too wound up about a HMRC investigation as the chances that you will ever get one are very slim (cutbacks)
but even if you do they aren't going to crucify you for a few mistakes if anything chances are they will owe you.
Just keep a record of what you earn and what you spend to earn it, you also need to hang on to them for up to 6 years.

My concern is recording the money coming in.  Paying the right amount into the bank (as lots of it is cash) , you dont pay it all in because some of it is spent on food etc     having a record of how much comes in  every day, maybe printing it out etc.   If you have invoices for big jobs, receipt for tools but then no daily or monthly record you cant answer the question on specific months.

[Bert Smith]

I appreciate that I'm not in the UK but here in .NL all business are VAT registered (called BTW here).... I have used in the past george, wcp and now aworka.... its not that complicated you have a list of all your work, your expenses, vech milages, VAT charged, VAT claimed back on expenses etc..... just run the reports you need and then present them as required.

Here I send all my stuff off to the accountant annually and he then checks and verify's it for the taxman.... The accountant really is there to verify and to ensure I get back every financial perk the 'system' will allow me to have based on all the information in the numbers I present.... This is where the accountant for me earns his keep..... his knowledge of 'this, that and the other' is why he is paid.

When I was in the UK and self employed my accountant then used to say.... Its about knowing where and how to bend the rules and reg's without breaking them.

Can you use aworka etc for other handyman work besides just window cleaning?

What is VAT exactly, when I ask for a petrol receipt to right off against tax the person behind the checkout says a receipt for VAT and say "I don't know, a receipt to right off against tax if that's VAT"   I thought VAT was for people with income over 80K.   

Someone else said someone asked him if he was VAT registered.  He is a low earning gardener, so wasnt he confusing VAT with income tax ?   Two different things.

[Walter Mitty]

I appreciate that I'm not in the UK but here in .NL all business are VAT registered (called BTW here).... I have used in the past george, wcp and now aworka.... its not that complicated you have a list of all your work, your expenses, vech milages, VAT charged, VAT claimed back on expenses etc..... just run the reports you need and then present them as required.

Here I send all my stuff off to the accountant annually and he then checks and verify's it for the taxman.... The accountant really is there to verify and to ensure I get back every financial perk the 'system' will allow me to have based on all the information in the numbers I present.... This is where the accountant for me earns his keep..... his knowledge of 'this, that and the other' is why he is paid.

When I was in the UK and self employed my accountant then used to say.... Its about knowing where and how to bend the rules and reg's without breaking them.

Can you use aworka etc for other handyman work besides just window cleaning?

What is VAT exactly, when I ask for a petrol receipt to right off against tax the person behind the checkout says a receipt for VAT and say "I don't know, a receipt to right off against tax if that's VAT"   I thought VAT was for people with income over 80K.   

Someone else said someone asked him if he was VAT registered.  He is a low earning gardener, so wasnt he confusing VAT with income tax ?   Two different things.

Not income over 80+k but turnover over 80+k.
However, there may be good reasons for a business to register for VAT below this level - but this wouldn't normally be the case for a service industry business like window cleaning.

[Bert Smith]

I appreciate that I'm not in the UK but here in .NL all business are VAT registered (called BTW here).... I have used in the past george, wcp and now aworka.... its not that complicated you have a list of all your work, your expenses, vech milages, VAT charged, VAT claimed back on expenses etc..... just run the reports you need and then present them as required.

Here I send all my stuff off to the accountant annually and he then checks and verify's it for the taxman.... The accountant really is there to verify and to ensure I get back every financial perk the 'system' will allow me to have based on all the information in the numbers I present.... This is where the accountant for me earns his keep..... his knowledge of 'this, that and the other' is why he is paid.

When I was in the UK and self employed my accountant then used to say.... Its about knowing where and how to bend the rules and reg's without breaking them.

So essentially we do all the hard work, not the accountant they just check it so we dont get in trouble with HMRC.

[Bert Smith]

"George" works fine for me.

Can you get George on your phone?  Can you then print off receipts from your laptop George.  I assume your phone and laptp George are linked?

Cant decide whether to get George or Aworka.

An accountant offered a deal to me £15/month for Quickbook for life.

[Dry Clean]

I appreciate that I'm not in the UK but here in .NL all business are VAT registered (called BTW here).... I have used in the past george, wcp and now aworka.... its not that complicated you have a list of all your work, your expenses, vech milages, VAT charged, VAT claimed back on expenses etc..... just run the reports you need and then present them as required.

Here I send all my stuff off to the accountant annually and he then checks and verify's it for the taxman.... The accountant really is there to verify and to ensure I get back every financial perk the 'system' will allow me to have based on all the information in the numbers I present.... This is where the accountant for me earns his keep..... his knowledge of 'this, that and the other' is why he is paid.

When I was in the UK and self employed my accountant then used to say.... Its about knowing where and how to bend the rules and reg's without breaking them.

So essentially we do all the hard work, not the accountant they just check it so we dont get in trouble with HMRC.

Again your not going to get into trouble with HMRC unless your deliberately doing something illegal, the accountants job
is to save you on your expenses which for many professions can be thousands of pounds, put it this way a self employed
joiner could spend a million pounds a year on materials and a mistake could run into thousands in unclaimed expenses therefore
an accountant will be a  must have, a self employed shiner making a mistake probably wont even cover the cost of the accountant.

If you get audited what will happen is they will go over your earnings and expenses and if they find a mistake either bill you
or rebate you.
If they find a pattern of similar mistakes say £100 in cash a week every week not being declared then they will throw the book at you.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Bert don't get too wound up about a HMRC investigation as the chances that you will ever get one are very slim (cutbacks)
but even if you do they aren't going to crucify you for a few mistakes if anything chances are they will owe you.
Just keep a record of what you earn and what you spend to earn it, you also need to hang on to them for up to 6 years.

My concern is recording the money coming in.  Paying the right amount into the bank (as lots of it is cash) , you dont pay it all in because some of it is spent on food etc     having a record of how much comes in  every day, maybe printing it out etc.   If you have invoices for big jobs, receipt for tools but then no daily or monthly record you cant answer the question on specific months.

You just record the income in a diary. A4 week to view will probably be sufficient.