[Fieldsy]

I appreciate that a large number of you have expensive and quality booster pumps, but could anyone advise if this would do the job, noting that we currently have a small booster pump at 80psi, which can only run for about 4-5 hours ( suppliers advice ). Its been fine, but think its on its last legs as its been working it socks off for the past two years. We need to start producing a little more water.  I can't find any info on the psi of this pump even on its tech data sheet.

https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-357523/clarke-spe1200ss-1%E2%80%9D-self-priming-stainless-steel-pump-240v.html

Any advice welcomed,

cheers Fieldsy

ps...sorry, this is on  a 4040

[Spruce]

I appreciate that a large number of you have expensive and quality booster pumps, but could anyone advise if this would do the job, noting that we currently have a small booster pump at 80psi, which can only run for about 4-5 hours ( suppliers advice ). Its been fine, but think its on its last legs as its been working it socks off for the past two years. We need to start producing a little more water.  I can't find any info on the psi of this pump even on its tech data sheet.

https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-357523/clarke-spe1200ss-1%E2%80%9D-self-priming-stainless-steel-pump-240v.html

Any advice welcomed,

cheers Fieldsy

ps...sorry, this is on  a 4040

This isn't a booster pump, its a centrifugal water pump. We use the 800 unit as a transfer pump. It transfers a reasonable amount of water through a 1" pipe, but it has very little pressure.

You need either the one from Gardiners or the electronic one from Machine Mart CBM240e. There are other suppliers as well but both of these have electronic switch off controls.

If you look under the Machine Mart website they list centrifugal and booster pumps separately.

.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks for the info Spruce, explained it nicely 

cheers m8

[Fieldsy]

Hi Spruce,

What about this one m8 ?
Non return valve and auto cut off.

https://www.powertoolwarehouse.co.uk/draper-64987-55l-min-max-800w-230v-booster-pump-bp1.html

cheers Fieldsy

[Spruce]

Hi Spruce,

What about this one m8 ?
Non return valve and auto cut off.

https://www.powertoolwarehouse.co.uk/draper-64987-55l-min-max-800w-230v-booster-pump-bp1.html

cheers Fieldsy

I've seen a couple  of posters over the years complaining that these weren't working. If it works then the wfp suppliers would be supplying them.
They aren't as far as I've seen.

I appreciate that they are using a similar pump to your first link but these are being sold for a different application. My advice is to buy the right product for the job even although its much more expensive.

.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks Spruce, appreciate the input, could easily have bought this without knowing the facts. Sorry for all the q's but its best to know other peoples opinions and feedback.

cheers again.

[Spruce]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about booster pumps per say.

The most common booster pumps are pressure boosters for combi boilers and shower heads in domestic applications.

The water regulations do not allow booster pumps connected directly to the mains that draw more than 12lpm from the water pipes. Any booster pumps or any other type of pump that draws more than 12lpm requires a break tank.  So it appears that most booster pumps are designed around adding 1.5 bar max above current water pressure which will keep the pump within the 12lpm regulations and are suitable for all household requirements.

For 4040 applications we need a much higher pressure and would expect the r/o to consume around 10lpm of water  with the r/o connected up and setup correctly. So this is in keeping with the regulations.

However, if the booster pump was allowed to run when flushing the membrane then its a pretty much given that the booster pump will fall foul of the regulations. I see that Gardiner's specify that their booster pump must never be run when flushing the r/o but mains water pressure must be left to do the job.

.

[CleanClear]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about booster pumps per say.

You also said above  This isn't a booster pump, its a centrifugal water pump.

A centrifugal water pump can be a booster pump. Any pump can be a booster pump. Booster pumps do use centrifugal water pumps . etc......The thing that makes a booster pump different is the pressure switch to make it cut out when reaching the line pressure , thats all. Otherwise the  pumps just run flat out.

[Spruce]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about booster pumps per say.

You also said above  This isn't a booster pump, its a centrifugal water pump.

A centrifugal water pump can be a booster pump. Any pump can be a booster pump. Booster pumps do use centrifugal water pumps . etc......The thing that makes a booster pump different is the pressure switch to make it cut out when reaching the line pressure , thats all. Otherwise the  pumps just run flat out.

Mmmm. I agree that a booster pump and a centrifugal pump operate on a similar principle of water being driven forward by means of a rotating impellor powered by, in this case, an electric motor.

Machine Mart separate the catagories into centrifugal and booster pumps.

The op asked if an SPE1200SS would be suitable as a booster pump for a 4040. So whilst it would be OK to be used in some form of boosting water pressure I stick with my original advice that it won't do much for a 4040.

As I have been unable to downloaded the parts schematic for both the CBM240 (E) and the SPE1200SS as they are PDF format, I have put up links.

https://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/cbm_cpe_handy_pump2.pdf    page 8 and 20.

https://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals2/spe800-1200ss.pdf    page 15. The technical specs are on page 17.

If you look at the pump internals you will notice that the mechanism used on the CBM240 is vastly more complex than the SPE1200SS which is a simple impellor design.

The non electronic CBM240 will boost water pressure to a maximum pressure of 8 bar (4.8 bar for the electronic controlled CBM240E) . This pressure is achievable due to its design.

There are no boost pressure figures for the SPE1200SS because Clarke, its manufacturer, never meant it to be a booster pump.

When I stated that there is a lot of confusion regarding booster pumps I was referring to a lot of peoples knowledge of them in general. Some say they are illegal to use, others say they can be used but only to boost the pressure to 1.5 bar. Still others believe they can only be used with a break tank.

The actual regulations state that a booster pump is legal to use, but it mustn't draw more than 12lpm from the supply pipe.  If it draws more water than that, it needs a break tank and authority to install it.

.

[CleanClear]

SPE 1200 SS


BPT 1200SS (same pump without the handle)


CBM 240E


I've been using the  SPE1200 SS since 2011/2012 on a 4040 and had no issues with it.

[Spruce]

SPE 1200 SS


BPT 1200SS (same pump without the handle)


CBM 240E


I've been using the  SPE1200 SS since 2011/2012 on a 4040 and had no issues with it.

You can't beat actually using one.  We have the SPE800 as a transfer pump and it doesn't deliver much pressure, hence the comment that it wouldn't work as a 4040 booster pump. I bow to your experience.

The specs for the BPT1200SS show it has a maximum boost pressure of 43psi. I still don't believe that's enough for a 4040.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051016200/

What pressure is it boosting your water to without the tank?

My tap water pressure is 50psi at the r/o and that at the lower end of the HF5 membranes operating window. 

[CleanClear]

The specs for the BPT1200SS show it has a maximum boost pressure of 43psi. I still don't believe that's enough for a 4040.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051016200/

What pressure is it boosting your water to without the tank?

My tap water pressure is 50psi at the r/o and that at the lower end of the HF5 membranes operating window.

You're right about 43psi not being enough, but that is just the way the "boost switch" is set (on the BPT1200). The pump itself is rated at 46M head, whilst the 240E is quoted as having a "huge 48 M head" .

To be honest i find it hard to understand what i'm looking at on the pressure gauges when its in operation. As you know open the waste a bit and it goes down, close it up and it shoots up. In general the way its set up and in use it reads about 70psi across the gauge whilst running. I've found it to be a solid reliable pump. Its even been left running on flush overnight with no issues.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks for all the info from you both, its an interesting read. I've tried finding psi on this one, as I like to have a few altenatives
http://www.supremeplumb.com/cgi-bin/DMdatabase.cgi?action=/Shop/Draper_Tools/Compressors_And_Pressure_Washers_2.txt&item=00642

If you find any specs for me on the max psi, could you let me know. Cheers

( EDIT ) having just found a bar to psi converter, this has a maximum of 3.5 bar which = approx 50psi, still seems a lot of money for something that is producing only slightly above some peeps tap pressure ?.

[Fieldsy]

I'm now beginning to wonder if my little CHEN pump is actually doing ok. Just been out to check water production and its producing 2l per minute so 120 litres per hour....therefore filling my 1000 litre in approx 8.5 hours. Does this seem adequate for a 4040 ? and would changing the pump actually make any difference considering this little thing produces 80psi. Maybem if it ain't broke don't fix it ?

[Spruce]

The specs for the BPT1200SS show it has a maximum boost pressure of 43psi. I still don't believe that's enough for a 4040.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051016200/

What pressure is it boosting your water to without the tank?

My tap water pressure is 50psi at the r/o and that at the lower end of the HF5 membranes operating window.

You're right about 43psi not being enough, but that is just the way the "boost switch" is set (on the BPT1200). The pump itself is rated at 46M head, whilst the 240E is quoted as having a "huge 48 M head" .

To be honest i find it hard to understand what i'm looking at on the pressure gauges when its in operation. As you know open the waste a bit and it goes down, close it up and it shoots up. In general the way its set up and in use it reads about 70psi across the gauge whilst running. I've found it to be a solid reliable pump. Its even been left running on flush overnight with no issues.

This is very interesting. Thanks for your input. The pressure on the gauges will drop when you go into flush mode. You have the pressure of 70 psi during normal operation which is pretty good. As you say its the pressure switch that's governing the booster pump, probably to keep within the 12lpm regulations.

I'm now beginning to wonder if my little CHEN pump is actually doing ok. Just been out to check water production and its producing 2l per minute so 120 litres per hour....therefore filling my 1000 litre in approx 8.5 hours. Does this seem adequate for a 4040 ? and would changing the pump actually make any difference considering this little thing produces 80psi. Maybem if it ain't broke don't fix it ?

Remember Fieldsy that not only has the pump go to deliver the pressure it also has to deliver the volume as well at that pressure.

So Cleanclear's pump will deliver the pressure as well as the volume as he has demonstrated.

The problem with that little Chen pump (or any other wfp pump for that matter) is that it wouldn't be rated at 100% duty cycle so it probably won't last. The other issue is that the rating of 5.5lpm will be a no resistance. In other words, there will be no hose on the outlet of the pump.
Once the pressure builds the volume of water the pump is able to provide also reduces. I don't know what Chen's pumping curve is but a 5.2 lpm Shurflo starts with 4lpm  at 0 pressure, 3.4lpm at 30psi, 3.0lpm at 50psi and 2.6lpm at 70psi. That's not enough  to provide water to a 4040 r/o. It would need to be a bigger pump which would consume more battery power.

It is possible to do this. Brodex do have a portable 4040 on a trolley driven by a 12v pump and battery.

[Spruce]

Thanks guys. This has been an eye opener topic for me. Your input and experience has been most appreciated Cleanclear. Thankyou.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks Spruce, to be honest.......................I'm now totally fecking confused.....lol. So are we now saying that Cleanclears selection of pumps are adequate, given the feedback of one being in use by Cleanclear....ie,,,....the 1200ss....


...and that would include this one ?

http://www.supremeplumb.com/cgi-bin/DMdatabase.cgi?action=/Shop/Draper_Tools/Compressors_And_Pressure_Washers_2.txt&item=00642

Yh, I know the little chens will not run and run. I've had it on for well over the 4 hours advised over a period of two years and its done the business to be honest. I just need to know if purchasing any of the above pumps ( including the ones you have recommended ) will have any affect on the 2l per minute I'm currently getting. If the answer is no, but will run over a longer period then the little £100 chen might have to stay .   Thanks for all the input, really appreciate it.

[CleanClear]

Thanks Spruce, to be honest.......................I'm now totally fecking confused.....lol. So are we now saying that Cleanclears selection of pumps are adequate, given the feedback of one being in use by Cleanclear....ie,,,....the 1200ss....


...and that would include this one ?

http://www.supremeplumb.com/cgi-bin/DMdatabase.cgi?action=/Shop/Draper_Tools/Compressors_And_Pressure_Washers_2.txt&item=00642

Yh, I know the little chens will not run and run. I've had it on for well over the 4 hours advised over a period of two years and its done the business to be honest. I just need to know if purchasing any of the above pumps ( including the ones you have recommended ) will have any affect on the 2l per minute I'm currently getting. If the answer is no, but will run over a longer period then the little £100 chen might have to stay .   Thanks for all the input, really appreciate it.

Fieldsy just to summarise from me.... i find the SPE 1200 SS fine and i've had no problems with it. However its only marginally quicker than your existing set up, 5 hours i think to fill the tank maybe 4, i'm not sure to be honest as i havn't timed it and just switch it on as and when to top it up.

Disregard the BPT 1200 SS i shown as an example, i just put it there for example purpose.

The CBM 240 E , is definatley a better pump. Its a marginally higher pressure but crucially better watewrflow. But you have to bear in mind that you can only draw what your tap/supply can provide. We will all get slightly different results using any of them.
I think, given the results you're getting that you might pay top money for a pump only to be sadly dissapointed.

I would not recommend the one you linked too............
http://www.supremeplumb.com/cgi-bin/DMdatabase.cgi?action=/Shop/Draper_Tools/Compressors_And_Pressure_Washers_2.txt&item=00642

Not because of the pump, its just i had this type before. And as they cut in and out i had my water pressure going up and down across the membranes which is not good. So i plumbed it up direct, missing out the booster switch. Which sort of negates getting a booster pump.

I don't want to confuse you anymore but in general Booster pumps are meant to hold a boosted line pressure that is higher than the supply. So for example you can install a shower in your loft, run multiple outlets and still have adequate pressure across them all if you have a "booster pump". But most household applications do NOT require 100psi, 80 psi nor even 50 PSI etc....  We are looking to "boost pressure", but in most cases a "booster pump" is not the correct tool for us. I know it sounds counter intuitive. We need a pump with a good capacity for suction or "draw" with an output of 100 PSI (or thereabouts) with the best flow we can get. When mines done i'm going to look at some of the DAB Jet pumps. But from what i'm reading here you may spend a lot of money and be sadly dissapointed.

Not sure if that helps you at all and i don't mean to confuse you. Be good to hear feedback from the guys running the CB 240 pump ?

[chris turner]

 Iv used this pump for 5 years now with no problems.
Boosts pressure to 100psi.
http://www.ro-man.com/shop/pumps/pump-only-continous-rated-24-x-7-usage.html

[Fieldsy]

Fieldsy just to summarise from me.... i find the SPE 1200 SS fine and i've had no problems with it. However its only marginally quicker than your existing set up, 5 hours i think to fill the tank maybe 4, i'm not sure to be honest as i havn't timed it and just switch it on as and when to top it up.

With the little chen pump it takes about 7/8 hours to fill up, but like you I tend to turn it on and walk away, so I may gain a few hours and have a pump that I don't need to " rest " for a few hours. I don't actually know what the pump is running at, as I don't have a gauge installed, but will get one. Was I right in seeing that yours runs at 70psi ?? ( SPE1200 SS )

I think, given the results you're getting that you might pay top money for a pump only to be sadly dissapointed.

Yes, this is exactly what I am wondering, am I going to get a significant increase in water/time production paying out for an expensive pump

Not because of the pump, its just i had this type before. And as they cut in and out i had my water pressure going up and down across the membranes which is not good. So i plumbed it up direct, missing out the booster switch. Which sort of negates getting a booster pump.

This makes sense mate, I don't see the point of the pump building up pressure only to switch off, loose pressure and start again ?

Not sure if that helps you at all and i don't mean to confuse you. Be good to hear feedback from the guys running the CB 240 pump ?

It all helps mate, and I really appreciate the time and patience you two guys have given .
So, in a nutshell, its
a) Buy expensive, but not necessarily improve that much to what I already have. ( Clarke CBM240E/Gardiners Pumps )
b) Buy cheaper and improve my output slightly ( SPE1200SS )
c) Stick with what I have, as it works albeit a little slower.

Heads spinning now, time for a cuppa...lol