[jo5hm4n]

Off to the Solicitors on Friday to talk about getting an Employment Contract drawn up with specific terms and conditions that i would like.  I realise it's just a bit of paper at the end of the day, but im doing to protect myself from employees leaving and trying to steal work etc..  Atleast i have something in writing legal that may deter them.

Anyway, if anybody on here has an employee contract already drawn up, i would appreciate if you could send me over some standard terms and conditions that may apply to a window cleaning employee.  I already have some specific terms that i want included, but ofcourse there may be some thay i have forgot or not included, so anybody who has already been there and done that, i would appreciate if you can send me over any advice/terms in your contracts for your employees.  Send on here, or email me - info@quantumshine.co.uk

Cheers 

[jo5hm4n]

Bump

[pdale]

Be balanced on how you restrict an employee in regards to  when they leave - between protecting yourself and restricting them from trading if they so wish.

The law works on restrictions based upon what is reasonable. So for instance, if you want to restrict them from stealing your work, or working in your streets, or possibly even the same estate that could be deemed reasonable, but if you want to restrict them from working in your town or county after they've left that may not be reasonable. Equally you could not prevent him from setting up on his own as a window cleaner - if the term is considered unreasonable a court would just throw the it out, whether he's signed it or not and you're left with no protection at all.

There is a fine balance between what it reasonable and what is unreasonable, as courts do not like to unreasonably  restrict free trade.

[Ian101]

Be balanced on how you restrict an employee in regards to  when they leave - between protecting yourself and restricting them from trading if they so wish.

The law works on restrictions based upon what is reasonable. So for instance, if you want to restrict them from stealing your work, or working in your streets, or possibly even the same estate that could be deemed reasonable, but if you want to restrict them from working in your town or county after they've left that may not be reasonable. Equally you could not prevent him from setting up on his own as a window cleaner - if the term is considered unreasonable a court would just throw the it out, whether he's signed it or not and you're left with no protection at all.

There is a fine balance between what it reasonable and what is unreasonable, as courts do not like to unreasonably  restrict free trade.

Paul knows his stuff - he is a solicitor now if I recall correctly

[pdale]

Paul knows his stuff - he is a solicitor now if I recall correctly

Not quite - I did a law degree while window cleaning, then a masters in law and now a uni lecturer. But still do a bit of local canvassing in the summer break 

[jo5hm4n]

Paul knows his stuff - he is a solicitor now if I recall correctly

Not quite - I did a law degree while window cleaning, then a masters in law and now a uni lecturer. But still do a bit of local canvassing in the summer break 

Thanks for your advice paul it was helpful.  I saw the solicitor today and got the ball running, very happy with the way things went.

Out of interest, how long did it take you to get a law degree whilst window cleaning?  Is that what you are doing these days then, not window cleaning anymore but working in law.

Not going to lie, lately i have been thinking that one day in the future if i want something else to do, i do like the idea of learning law. 

[pdale]

It took me 6 years part-time to get my degree, I window cleaned for many years before that too. I always fancied the idea of getting a degree, so decided to take a distance learning degree through the University of London as a mature student. Then I spent 2 years part-time doing a Masters at Birmingham, whilst I was still canvassing for window cleaners.

I still do a little local canvassing in the summer as I have a long break, but concentrate more on the teaching over the year. It is a good subject to learn, especially on rainy days 

[Solar Steve]

An 'employemnt contract' as you term it, will not enable you to prevent your employee stealing your work.  The contract is merely the agreement of works, hours to be worked and monies to be paid.

In order for you to be protected, draw up an anti-competition clause for them to sign.  This can outline clearly what they are and not allowed to do during and after their employment with you. 

All of my staff sign one and it prevents the lads on tools from doing window cleaning for other companies on weekends, for example, 'without the expressed, written permission of the managing director'.   It also prevents them from setting up their own round or going to work for another similar company for at least 6 months after their employment with me.  I am protected from sabotage and theft of my customers because of this document.

I hope that helps a little.

[8weekly]

An 'employemnt contract' as you term it, will not enable you to prevent your employee stealing your work.  The contract is merely the agreement of works, hours to be worked and monies to be paid.

In order for you to be protected, draw up an anti-competition clause for them to sign.  This can outline clearly what they are and not allowed to do during and after their employment with you. 

All of my staff sign one and it prevents the lads on tools from doing window cleaning for other companies on weekends, for example, 'without the expressed, written permission of the managing director'.  It also prevents them from setting up their own round or going to work for another similar company for at least 6 months after their employment with me. I am protected from sabotage and theft of my customers because of this document.

I hope that helps a little.

That would be unenforceable in a court.

[Solar Steve]

An 'employemnt contract' as you term it, will not enable you to prevent your employee stealing your work.  The contract is merely the agreement of works, hours to be worked and monies to be paid.

In order for you to be protected, draw up an anti-competition clause for them to sign.  This can outline clearly what they are and not allowed to do during and after their employment with you. 

All of my staff sign one and it prevents the lads on tools from doing window cleaning for other companies on weekends, for example, 'without the expressed, written permission of the managing director'.  It also prevents them from setting up their own round or going to work for another similar company for at least 6 months after their employment with me. I am protected from sabotage and theft of my customers because of this document.

I hope that helps a little.

That would be unenforceable in a court.

Quite a definite statement.  I guess the scores of lawyers at my employment law company don't know what they are on about then.  Can you write up my employment documents for me instead?  You obviously know what you're on about.

[p1w1]

The thing is you can right whatever you want in a contract (you dont need a legal team for that) its enforcing it thats the problem. Years ago a mate of mine worked for a landscape gardening company with very similar clause in his contract after about 3 or so years working for them he set up on his own in the same area. He received a couple of threatening letters from the company outlining the contract he signed and the terms he was breaking and how if he continued they would take legal action, however thats as far as it ever went. 
Apparently (told to him by someone who still worked there) it was more of a scaremainering tactic, the time and effort and the very large costs involved taking it all to court just wouldn't have made it worth it.
 The only people who win out of these situations are the solicitors. And even then there a technical ways of getting round it, the same for going to work for a competitor (for instance if they wanted to leave you for someone else they could just get themselves sacked from your company).
Also (and im no expert) i would of thought the only losses you could claim for are the cost of him actually leaving you or any investment you made in them recently (like the solar course you do with the kellogg's certificate at the end  )  which would probably be less than what the court costs would be.

[Dry Clean]

An 'employemnt contract' as you term it, will not enable you to prevent your employee stealing your work.  The contract is merely the agreement of works, hours to be worked and monies to be paid.

In order for you to be protected, draw up an anti-competition clause for them to sign.  This can outline clearly what they are and not allowed to do during and after their employment with you. 

All of my staff sign one and it prevents the lads on tools from doing window cleaning for other companies on weekends, for example, 'without the expressed, written permission of the managing director'.  It also prevents them from setting up their own round or going to work for another similar company for at least 6 months after their employment with me. I am protected from sabotage and theft of my customers because of this document.

I hope that helps a little.

That would be unenforceable in a court.

Quite a definite statement.  I guess the scores of lawyers at my employment law company don't know what they are on about then.  Can you write up my employment documents for me instead?  You obviously know what you're on about.

Thing is he's right, the only legal thing you could do is offer a lump sum which you could then go after if the x employee
breaks the terms, other than that its not against the law for an x employee to set up on their own and therefore has no penalty.
What you have is nothing more than a worthless contract designed to deter a employee similar to a park at your own risk sign at
a public carpark.

[Leeds]

Just focus on the practical, reality of it.

Say they can't take on any of your current customers as of date of leaving for 6 months. That's as good as you're gonna get. And should be easier to prove, if they all start disappearing for someone significantly cheaper.

In reality, if you're big enough to employ, when they leave, they're not instantly going to be able to compete with you. They just won't have the capital, reputation, brand and connections like you have. And that's what a business is really worth, it's not it's ability to clean windows.

[Solar Steve]

All I can go by is my experience so far. All of our employees sign it. It has worked on the one time we have had to invoke it. If they didn't work, no one would sign them. They are as binding as the SMT of the employee.

[8weekly]

An 'employemnt contract' as you term it, will not enable you to prevent your employee stealing your work.  The contract is merely the agreement of works, hours to be worked and monies to be paid.

In order for you to be protected, draw up an anti-competition clause for them to sign.  This can outline clearly what they are and not allowed to do during and after their employment with you. 

All of my staff sign one and it prevents the lads on tools from doing window cleaning for other companies on weekends, for example, 'without the expressed, written permission of the managing director'.  It also prevents them from setting up their own round or going to work for another similar company for at least 6 months after their employment with me. I am protected from sabotage and theft of my customers because of this document.

I hope that helps a little.

That would be unenforceable in a court.

Quite a definite statement.  I guess the scores of lawyers at my employment law company don't know what they are on about then.  Can you write up my employment documents for me instead?  You obviously know what you're on about.

You can put it in a contract but you can't enforce it. It's an unreasonable term and amounts to restraint of trade. You can enforce not taking your customers for a period of time but you can't stop someone working. Think about it.

[k.diver]

if you have an inkling that your lads might be going on their own , doing side jobs IS AN EARLY SIGN

you need to act fast .   theres one of 2 things you can do

 1. up their workload considerably ,praps start a big marketing effort  to fuel it.  OR...

2.  get rid of them and replace them with the sort of worker who  has no ambition to go it alone.

if you dont theres a very good chance theyll pull the rug from under you.    iv always got rid of anyone early [usually in the first month] if they show signs of entrepreneur