[paul alan]

Nathan im buying a tank that has two immersions in it.

How do you power yours?

Have you found the hot to be advantagous?

Have you had to uprate any equipment, pipes or fittings etc ?

Cheers

[nathankaye]

I opted for a 2kw immersion heater as you can power that from a normal 13amp extension perfectly ok, i did ask an electrician. My tank is 500ltrs and i have insullated it with the silver bubble wrap insulation and it holds it temperature really well all day.
I have a submersible pump in the tank to fill a trolley and so far this has not been effected in any way.
I turn the heater on at 9pm until 7.30 - 8am and depending on start temp the water gets between 65 - 70 degrees.
So i dont loose heat through the hose etc, my pure freedom digi controller is set to 79 on flow. Less than 75 and i loose a little heat but the faster flow keeps the heat coming through.
I have had to connect my tank hose direct to my hose reel from the pump for a tight connection as i was springing leaks due to the hose becoming supple. You do need to tighten all your connections.

It cleans lovely, bird mess melts off. I even cleaned some dried on egg with such ease. On another thread i tried the bio wash powder on a fascia clean which didnt go to well for me and so on the rear fascia clean i just used the hot and it did a great clean.
I would highly recommend. Im using it through summer as i find it cleans so good, even though i clean every 4 wks. Its just good for bird mess, tree sap and spider poo etc. Really good on first cleans as well.

Hope this helps. Any more questions just ask

[paul alan]

Well this has 2 immersions i can only presume they have less kilowatts each?

I didnt buy this tank for the immersions but having read your posts about hot water I thought it may come in handy as Im doing lots of first cleans.

I wasnt going to use them but now Im thinking it may speed things up for me, would you say it knocks any time off your day?

I suppose in theory its going to take less effort to clean, which will take less out of me as Im teetering on the edge of exhaustion most weeks.

What effect has this had on your lecy bill?

Cheers Nathan!

[nathankaye]

Its a combination of fast flow and hot water that makes my working day easier.
On another post someone mentioned the sweet point of hot water cleaning is 65degrees and i first scoffed at this as i ran the immersion for less hours i do now and had temps into the 50's and was seeing a difference. But some bird mess still required a little effort into getting off. So i increased the running time to increase temp and agree that in the 60's it more noticeable the difference it makes.
I clean enough houses per day so i dont add anymore but i finish a fraction earlier and happier. You will feel the difference as its less effort to clean.
If not done so already, add a 24v motor, a chain n a coq to your hose reel and it makes even less effort to working and can be done for about £50.

Not had my first quarterly bill. But its a fraction cheaper after midnight. Im guessing between 2 and 2.50 a night. Some weeks i work 5 days others only 3 or 4.

[paul alan]

Based on 12p per unit
2kw
11 hours per day
4 days per week
£10.56 per week
You were almost smack on mate!
Presuming your 12 pence per unit of course

[nathankaye]

You'll have to post how you get on with it. But its well worth giving it a try.

Initially i was thinking of sticking two 14inch 2kw heaters in my tank. One in each of the 250l divides in my tank.
 What size tank is it and is this what they have done perhaps??

[paul alan]

Its a 650 with 2x3kw seems like overkill to me but i'll only use the 1.

Its going in this weekend.

[dazmond]

Its a combination of fast flow and hot water that makes my working day easier.
On another post someone mentioned the sweet point of hot water cleaning is 65degrees and i first scoffed at this as i ran the immersion for less hours i do now and had temps into the 50's and was seeing a difference. But some bird mess still required a little effort into getting off. So i increased the running time to increase temp and agree that in the 60's it more noticeable the difference it makes.
I clean enough houses per day so i dont add anymore but i finish a fraction earlier and happier. You will feel the difference as its less effort to clean.
If not done so already, add a 24v motor, a chain n a coq to your hose reel and it makes even less effort to working and can be done for about £50.

Not had my first quarterly bill. But its a fraction cheaper after midnight. Im guessing between 2 and 2.50 a night. Some weeks i work 5 days others only 3 or 4.

after using hot water on and off for years i realise there is absolutely no difference in cleaning times at all over the course of a working day.(most of my work is like yours 4 weekly or 8 weekly maintenance cleans).if you use a high flow and a good brush with a gardiners scraper you wont be any quicker with hot.

i tried to convince myself there was a difference but there isnt.its good in winter for supple hoses though but id rather not spend the £500-£600 a year i was spending on gas and the time spent driving to change the bottles etc,etc.

for really dirty first cleans or add ons i just use chemicals(virosol,CIF etc)in a spray bottle or 5l pressure sprayer.its actually quicker to use a customers outside tap if your cleaning a really dirty conny roof for example (as water flow is faster).

[sunshine windows]

Sorry Daz, but I completely disagree with your last post. Hot is much quicker on maintenance cleans as well as really filthy first cleans.

Whether it's cost effective is dependant on how you price them to cover the expense of the heated system you run. And before anyone jumps on that comment, I'm not saying you should hike your prices up for the privilege of using hot. It should pay for itself.

[nathankaye]

In all the years doing trad work i never used chemicals for first cleans or conservatory roofs, just water, soap and elbow grease.
Since going wfp and using this forum ive tried soap powder lol, ubik and soft wash agents and im not convinced any are actually faster. Especially because of all the added rinsing to get all the soap residue and bubbles off! However i have found that simple hot water cuts through it quite easily and no need for added rinsing etc.
So for me, yes i agree a good brush is key and at the moment i feel hot water plays its part too. Compared to extra effort in using a scrubbing pad and added connections on the brush/pole.

Absolutely ideal in winter for supple hoses, water not freezing in tank or in hose as it lays on a cold floor. Its a win win.

Having now good prices and continuing getting good prices also covers the small increase in electric costs.  For ones who say it shouldnt be covered........when you do your taxes do you include the electric costs of heating your water? If so its a business cost and my business pays for it
 

[dazmond]

Sorry Daz, but I completely disagree with your last post. Hot is much quicker on maintenance cleans as well as really filthy first cleans.

Whether it's cost effective is dependant on how you price them to cover the expense of the heated system you run. And before anyone jumps on that comment, I'm not saying you should hike your prices up for the privilege of using hot. It should pay for itself.

dont forget ive used both hot and cold for a considerable time and there is no difference in overall time over the course of a working day.im still finishing my days work at roughly the same time whether its using hot or cold water.

[Dry Clean]

Hot water does clean better and I'm sure there will be guys who work on the coast or in areas that get high amounts of bird muck
on the glass who will benefit from it.
For guys like Nathan knocking out 30 to 35 properties a day with cold hot is going to be nothing more than a placebo so would
take his advice with a pinch of salt.
Basically what Dazmond is saying he doesn't get anything on the glass where hot will make a difference even though at one time the placebo effect did fool him into thinking it did.
That said if the placebo effect gives you the confidence not to over clean then it may still be money well spent.

[sunshine windows]

Sorry Daz, but I completely disagree with your last post. Hot is much quicker on maintenance cleans as well as really filthy first cleans.

Whether it's cost effective is dependant on how you price them to cover the expense of the heated system you run. And before anyone jumps on that comment, I'm not saying you should hike your prices up for the privilege of using hot. It should pay for itself.

dont forget ive used both hot and cold for a considerable time and there is no difference in overall time over the course of a working day.im still finishing my days work at roughly the same time whether its using hot or cold water.

I've used both too Daz, so have first hand experience.

Let's compare these factors when cleaning with hot vs cold.

Bird muck
Snail trails
Grease marks/hand prints
Pollen spots
Dried on cut grass

You could write a list as long as your arm with things hot cleans quicker.

[nathankaye]

Hot water does clean better and I'm sure there will be guys who work on the coast or in areas that get high amounts of bird muck
on the glass who will benefit from it.
For guys like Nathan knocking out 30 to 35 properties a day with cold hot is going to be nothing more than a placebo so would
take his advice with a pinch of salt.
Basically what Dazmond is saying he doesn't get anything on the glass where hot will make a difference even though at one time the placebo effect did fool him into thinking it did.
That said if the placebo effect gives you the confidence not to over clean then it may still be money well spent.

Since ive sorked near on 2yrs with cold snd now using hot, i think i can tell the difference. Along with many years on trad work as well. So its upto you guys to believe or not believe or simpky try it out yourself.  But lets make this clear, i dont care if people do or dont. Im not getting paid to promote hot water in any way. Im simply sharing my findings.

If i wish to add more work to my day im i could. However i like the relative ease to my day now and i contribute a part of that to using hot water.
I should have filmed it, next house i will. Some nasty dried on bird poop on the plastic frame.  Without scrubing i just ran the water over it and in seconds it just disolved and fell off. Now if i use same flow speed with cold water doing the exact same, no amount of wishful thinking or placebo will make that happen.
But you can be the judge of that......

[Dry Clean]

Sorry Daz, but I completely disagree with your last post. Hot is much quicker on maintenance cleans as well as really filthy first cleans.

Whether it's cost effective is dependant on how you price them to cover the expense of the heated system you run. And before anyone jumps on that comment, I'm not saying you should hike your prices up for the privilege of using hot. It should pay for itself.

dont forget ive used both hot and cold for a considerable time and there is no difference in overall time over the course of a working day.im still finishing my days work at roughly the same time whether its using hot or cold water.

I've used both too Daz, so have first hand experience.

Let's compare these factors when cleaning with hot vs cold.

Bird muck
Snail trails
Grease marks/hand prints
Pollen spots
Dried on cut grass

You could write a list as long as your arm with things hot cleans quicker.

That list means nothing without putting it into context, for instance if your getting endless amounts of bird poo on the glass
then hot and some sort of chemical may be in order.
A few bird poo marks over the day and hot isn't going to make much of a difference to your daily workload.
The odd stubborn hand print around a patio door is easily sorted by a wipe of a damp microfiber, again if your windows are covered in hand prints then hot and a chemical may be in order.
Dried on grass, cant say anything about that as I can honestly say its something Iv not experienced.
Snail trails and pollen marks come off easily enough for me ( medium mixed brush )so hot wont make a difference.
To be honest it just looks like your just trying to find problems simply because you like using it.

[Dry Clean]

Hot water does clean better and I'm sure there will be guys who work on the coast or in areas that get high amounts of bird muck
on the glass who will benefit from it.
For guys like Nathan knocking out 30 to 35 properties a day with cold hot is going to be nothing more than a placebo so would
take his advice with a pinch of salt.
Basically what Dazmond is saying he doesn't get anything on the glass where hot will make a difference even though at one time the placebo effect did fool him into thinking it did.
That said if the placebo effect gives you the confidence not to over clean then it may still be money well spent.

Since ive sorked near on 2yrs with cold snd now using hot, i think i can tell the difference. Along with many years on trad work as well. So its upto you guys to believe or not believe or simpky try it out yourself.  But lets make this clear, i dont care if people do or dont. Im not getting paid to promote hot water in any way. Im simply sharing my findings.

If i wish to add more work to my day im i could. However i like the relative ease to my day now and i contribute a part of that to using hot water.
I should have filmed it, next house i will. Some nasty dried on bird poop on the plastic frame.  Without scrubing i just ran the water over it and in seconds it just disolved and fell off. Now if i use same flow speed with cold water doing the exact same, no amount of wishful thinking or placebo will make that happen.
But you can be the judge of that......

Did you use cold and do the exact same thing on the exact same bird poo,? the answer is you didn't, we have all had bird poo that's easily removed and other bird poo that will require a scrapper, a placebo works by giving it credit for something that may
have worked without it.
That said nobody is saying hot doesn't clean better than cold, but the fact you where cleaning  30 to 35 properties a day using cold tells me that you definitely weren't getting a lot of hard to remove crud on the windows you where cleaning so your hardly a
good recommendation for using it.

[nathankaye]

You have valid points, however......
As ive said prior, hot water that im now using on a flow rate of 80 plus the use of an electric reel all combined means my working day is far easier. Easier as far less effort/energy is being excerted in achieving the same amount of work. Am i finishing any earlier???  If i wanted to then the answer is definately yes. However as i have also said i dont race about like i once did to achieve that number of houses in a day. So i can relax and take it steady, have a coffee if a customer asks..........break for lunch and go to a toby's carvery for instance.
So if i worked like before i would easily be finished earlier  but dont see the need too.

The chap who started this post Paul said he was getting tired by the end of the week. With the above i dont feel tired etc in my achievements as i once perhaps did.  Tho if my mrs asks, its really hard my job   

[dazmond]

i was cleaning 4 or 5 houses an hour with hot(compact estate work)......and the same with cold.

i was cleaning bigger properties in an hour with hot.......and the same with cold.

i was cleaning some properties in 30 mins with hot........and the same with cold.

get my drift?

over the course of the day you wont clean any more or less with cold than hot IME.

[dazmond]

im not saying hot doesnt clean better.it does at higher temperatures.its just not needed for most day to day work and wont save you any time over the course of a day IME.

[dazmond]

Im not knocking how any body else chooses to work. Personally i find hot to have its advantages and less time agitating  and rinsing which for me equals less effort being excerted and shaving time per house which build per day depending how you work.
When i was trad working i polished off alot of work per day as i had perfected my technique. But i would be tired by end of day or the week. I watch these on youtube at the window cleaning shows and reckon i could win some of the chaps on there and thats why i like to keep my hand in some trad work so i dont loose that skill. As i mopped a window i would blade the other one dry for instance.
So switching over to wfp i have tried virtually every technique and played around so i can become as efficient on wfp as i was on trad. Using hot compared to cold i have changed my technique to match. Maybe you did, maybe you didnt i dont know. But in my opinion just because someones been doing wfp for longer for instance doesnt mean they know it all or are doing it any better.
Not knocking anyone, just defending what i feel has improved my working day

FAIR PLAY NATHAN....but if you were maintenance window cleaning 30-35 houses a day using cold you wont clean anymore a day with hot.its just the way it is mate.....and you ve still got the expense of heating your water up.

even the less scrubbing with be negligible over the course of a day.stubborn birdmuck still needs soaking (and scraping usually) whether its hot or cold water your using.snail trails come off easier but if you use a natural bristle hybrid brush theres not much in it TBH.