[trippyboy]

Installed my 8 litre Fastar water heater today.What i want to know is do in need to buy stickers for the van explaining i have gas onboard?
If i do what should said sticker say and where can i buy them?

[Splash & dash]

Yes you need an lpg sticker like plumbers have on there vans should be able to get one in any good car assesory shop maybe Halfords

[Tosh]

I've spoken to my insurance company and the local propane supplier who enquirer with Calor Gas about it.

Basically because we only carry a limited amount of gas most of the regulations governing the transport of bottled flammable liquids do not apply to us. However it was suggested the vehicle is stickered, ventilated and the bottle is fixed in position. Stickers are available on eBay as is a fixing strap.

Calor also suggested to inform my insurance company but I'd already phoned them up. I'm with Alexander Swan, as a broker; they didn't have much of a clue themselves to be honest.

[Og]

As a firefighter, I'd find it very useful to know that there's propane on board, at an incident.

[SeanK]

Its a grey area mate, but to be honest put one on your van just to help guys like Og if the worst should happen.

[robert mitchell]

As a firefighter, I'd find it very useful to know that there's propane on board, at an incident.

I concur

[Dave Willis]

Very grey area, some say the van should have floor vents not so much for Co2 but for any escaping gas, others say the cylinder should be in a metal box. When you phone the broker they generally haven't a clue what you're on about, mine only wanted to know the weight. Public liability insurance probably wouldn't be keen if they knew you ignited a boiler next to the commercial properties you were working on. I actually had a gas leak in my van  - obviously the gas settled around the leisure battery complete with crocodile clips, one spark and the van would have gone up. You must remember to shut the gas off every
time you drive off too. I took mine out in the end just didn't seem right.
I used to buy my gas from a local marina - the supplier had completed a gas safety course - he wasn't impressed with what he saw.
Probably a good idea to carry a fire extinguisher too, I still have one on my tank frame.

[trippyboy]

Thanks for all your advice folks, much appreciated.
Trippy

[Spruce]

This is why I believe having an autogas vapour tank is the best solution. No only is it bolted down (should be) but the gas regulator and filler pipe attached to the tank is vented outside.
Advantage is that they can be legally filled at petrol stations selling gas. Bad news is that they are more expensive than a loose gas bottle.

How are you venting your heater Trippyboy?

Dave Willis had his properly vented through the roof of his van. I'm not sure why the gas supplier would not be impressed with Dave's heater setup - it could only be because of the gas bottle arrangement.

I'm sure that gas regulations pertaining to caravans require the gas bottle/s to be fitted outside the caravan, so they are always fitted on the drawbar in a vented box.
Motorhomes do not have a drawbar so the bottles have to be fitted in a sealed box, only accessible from the outside and vented to the outside.

A supplier in Ireland designed a very nice cabinet which sealed the gas bottle from the rest of the van. Where he failed IMO was that he didn't provide a proper exhaust vent through the roof. His system required the van doors to be left open to vent the heater.

The question I ask is what are the gas regulations regarding gas on boats? Dave was buying his gas from a Marina sales outlet. I've never seen a gas bottle on one of them.

.

[Dave Willis]

Canal boats have gas. I think the regulations are in place because people sleep on board, in motorhomes and in caravans. Not sure why the supplier wasn't impressed, I had the gas bottle strapped to a proper rack and bolted to the cage, the flue vented through the roof, maybe it was because the cylinder was inside and right next to the boiler. I googled everything and couldn't find any proper regulations for what we do. I'm sure although my broker didn't seem bothered the actual insurance company would have a fit if they knew what I was doing. I took the brokers reply as it suited me at the time but there was nothing in writing should there be any comeback. There is something in my current insurance about working with heat but as I don't have gas anymore I didn't read it in any depth.
Sorry Spruce, I forgot to mention it was a canal boat marina. A couple of canal boats have gone up in flames in our town and killed the occupants whether it was gas that caught fire or log burners I don't remember. Gas and boats don't mix very well because gas sinks to the bottom and lies in the bilges.

[Spruce]

Canal boats have gas. I think the regulations are in place because people sleep on board, in motorhomes and in caravans. Not sure why the supplier wasn't impressed, I had the gas bottle strapped to a proper rack and bolted to the cage, the flue vented through the roof, maybe it was because the cylinder was inside and right next to the boiler. I googled everything and couldn't find any proper regulations for what we do. I'm sure although my broker didn't seem bothered the actual insurance company would have a fit if they knew what I was doing. I took the brokers reply as it suited me at the time but there was nothing in writing should there be any comeback. There is something in my current insurance about working with heat but as I don't have gas anymore I didn't read it in any depth.
Sorry Spruce, I forgot to mention it was a canal boat marina. A couple of canal boats have gone up in flames in our town and killed the occupants whether it was gas that caught fire or log burners I don't remember. Gas and boats don't mix very well because gas sinks to the bottom and lies in the bilges.

Funnily enough I was thinking of canal boats Dave. I have a customer who has one. I will ask him next time what the regulations are regarding gas.

One of the local cleaners has also taken his gas heater out, more due to space rather than safety. However, he also had a gas leak due to a faulty regulator which was nothing to do with him.  Leaking gas into the van is not a good situation to find yourself in as you have experienced Dave.

[Dave Willis]

I had a leaking regulator too so although the pipework was sound the gas still escaped. I got into the bad habit of leaving the gas tap turned on too., often all day because I was too lazy to stretch into the van and turn it off.   


Did you know you shouldn't use jubilee clips? I didn't. http://www.ncass.org.uk/mobile-catering-home/content/get-legal/law-pages/gas-safety/gas-safety-the-checklist-for-mobile-caterers

The more you try and find information the more worrying it becomes.

[martin hulstone]

I agree with Dave and would never put a gas boiler in my van, an immersion heater is so much easier, safer and you know there are no insurance problems ( you only find out how good your insurance is when you need it).

[Spruce]

I had a leaking regulator too so although the pipework was sound the gas still escaped. I got into the bad habit of leaving the gas tap turned on too., often all day because I was too lazy to stretch into the van and turn it off.   


Did you know you shouldn't use jubilee clips? I didn't. http://www.ncass.org.uk/mobile-catering-home/content/get-legal/law-pages/gas-safety/gas-safety-the-checklist-for-mobile-caterers

The more you try and find information the more worrying it becomes.

Thanks for the link. I was aware of the regulation pertaining to catering vans but I couldn't find anything with regard to the caravan industry. The catering industry are required to have an annual gas inspection but a caravan owner doesn't.  There has to be some regulation requiring the RV industry to 'seal' their bottles from the inside and vented outside, but there doesn't seem to be any regulations regarding use.

I did read somewhere that it was illegal to use gas appliances on the move in France but I can't find that either. 

[dazmond]

Installed my 8 litre Fastar water heater today.What i want to know is do in need to buy stickers for the van explaining i have gas onboard?
If i do what should said sticker say and where can i buy them?

yep ive put 3 stickers on the van(2 sides and back).you can get them from any caravan spares shop.although i dont think its a legal requirement if your gas bottle is 13kg.

[Dave Willis]

I don't think there is any problem carrying gas in the smaller quantities that we do. Plumbers and builders carry gas bottles, you can carry your barbecue bottle home but you wouldn't stop and have a fry up inside your car on the way home. The worrying part for me is having an ignited boiler inside the van, next to the gas bottle it just doesn't seem common sense. Caterers must have the bottle outside of the van in order to cook and have it fitted by a gas safe engineer. I can't see us getting away with bodging our own gas boilers inside our vans and lighting up for much longer. Pretty sure the insurance companies will realise what's going on first followed by health and safety.

Spruce, http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/boats-with-gas/  plenty of boaty stuff on internet.

[Spruce]

I don't think there is any problem carrying gas in the smaller quantities that we do. Plumbers and builders carry gas bottles, you can carry your barbecue bottle home but you wouldn't stop and have a fry up inside your car on the way home. The worrying part for me is having an ignited boiler inside the van, next to the gas bottle it just doesn't seem common sense. Caterers must have the bottle outside of the van in order to cook and have it fitted by a gas safe engineer. I can't see us getting away with bodging our own gas boilers inside our vans and lighting up for much longer. Pretty sure the insurance companies will realise what's going on first followed by health and safety.

Spruce, http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/boats-with-gas/  plenty of boaty stuff on internet.

Thanks. It was the storage of a gas cylinder that I find interesting. As you have stated, gas is heavier than air and so a leak could accumulate in the bilge.

Interestingly, they also require copper piping to distribute the gas to various take off points. A diesel heater also needs the diesel supply to the diesel boiler/furnace to be copper as well. If being used in an automotive application, it only needs to be 'plastic' (stiff walled nylon stuff.)

This is what we need in the UK

http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-gas-installation.php

In Australia no unqualified person is permitted to install a gas appliance or move it in an RV, caravan or camping trailer. The rules are clear. The main supply line has to be outside the vehicle and the gas bottle can be installed in a compartment that is sealed from the inside of the RV, but vented to outside. A Red Reflective LP Gas Storage sticker is require to be fixed adjacent to the compartment.

I notice Trippyboy has gone quiet. 

.

[Smurf]

This debate has been going on for years by window cleaners.
I blame Nat Jones myself as was one of the first to post a vid years ago 

[Dave Willis]

 
I don't blame anyone (or Trippyboy) there are no clear regulations really. To me common sense didn't quite add up so eventually I took it out.

[dazmond]

you ll be glad of the hot water tomorrow trippy(forecast is -2 in the morning!)

itll melt that ice off the glass for sure.