[trafficjamz]

So the tds on my old 450gpd has crept up to 40ppm after an episode of dodgy water from the supply.  Even after cleaning and a good flushing, it's had it. Membranes need replacing.

So I can either replace the parts, or buy new, which I think is the best route.

I don't use a Di so I rely on a low tds from the ro, which has done well for the past 6 years.

The tds reading from the tap is 130ppm and I'll know the pressure later this afternoon when I get back.

So what should I be looking at? It would be nice to have a faster production too.

I believe the Gardiner ro has 93% efficiency at 80psi.  So that probably wouldn't do for me as I don't use Di.

The other option I've seen is the 4021 from daqua, that has 98%. So I'm assuming I'd get around 003ppm from that (if indeed the water pressure is around 80%)

I know a lot hangs on the result from the pressure test, and I don't really want to use a booster.

But I just want to ready myself if my options when I get the psi reading

Thanks

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Good Morning,

The attached range will be of help to you - please do email us with any questions you have.
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/wfp-purification-systems/static-systems/ro-di-system-kits-packages

[trafficjamz]

It's just under 50psi
 

[Spruce]

I have a 4040 with an HF5 membrane and no booster pump. Our water pressure is 50 psi and r/o gets the water down to 2. Tap tds is 112 atm.

The previous r/o was a 450gpd and that also preformed the same, tds down to 2.

The 450 gpd was fast enough to provide 2 of us with water, although we had to ration it toward the end of the week.

Should have bought this 4040 long time before we did. R/o is now 4 years old with the same membrane.

We could clean windows with a ppm of 2 and save on resin, but I choose to polish it off to zero.

[trafficjamz]

Thanks Spruce.
Decided to go for the 4021 from daqua.

How much resin do you go through for polishing it off?
And how often do you change the 2 filters?

[lal]

I have a 4040 with an HF5 membrane and no booster pump. Our water pressure is 50 psi and r/o gets the water down to 2. Tap tds is 112 atm.

The previous r/o was a 450gpd and that also preformed the same, tds down to 2.

The 450 gpd was fast enough to provide 2 of us with water, although we had to ration it toward the end of the week.

Should have bought this 4040 long time before we did. R/o is now 4 years old with the same membrane.

We could clean windows with a ppm of 2 and save on resin, but I choose to polish it off to zero.

 Hi Spruce, how often do you flush your RO and for how long, I'm just wondering because my water pressure and Tap tds
 is the same as yours, but i don't know if my membrane is a HF4 or HF5, never taken it out, bought my van & system 4 years ago.
 I Flush my system at the start of every fill for 10 minutes.

 Regards
Lal

[Spruce]

Thanks Spruce.
Decided to go for the 4021 from daqua.

How much resin do you go through for polishing it off?
And how often do you change the 2 filters?

I have 20" prefilters and use a sediment and Fiberdyne carbon block filter. I get them from Gardiner.

I think Doug sells the 4021 with 10" prefilters and he has a Fiberdyne equivalent in stock.

The 20" Fiberdyne has a service life of 78,000 liters; waste and pure. Mine lasts me around 3 - 4 months. I have a water meter on my system so I know when to replace them.
The 10" Fiberdyne has a service life of 38,000 liters.

Now SeanK's experience with replacing the carbon filters is that he can get them to last longer and buys cheaper units and as far as he's concerned I'm wasting money buying more expensive carbon block prefilters and he makes a valid point.  He argues that leaving the filters longer may reduce the life of the membrane but overall you will be saving money.

However, I don't know what the concentration of chlorine is in our water. According to Doug the further away from the dosing plant you are the less chlorine will be in your water.
The manufacturers will be building in a safety margin so for all I know, these filters could be good for the removal of more chlorine than the 78k.  So I believe that sticking to the manufacturers recommendations is the best way forward for me.

Resin.

I have a 6.5 liter di vessel and on average replace the resin in it once a year. So a bag of resin will last 4 years although I did split a bag with another local windie last time as he was short of resin. My system is automatic. A float switch in the tank operates a normally close solenoid valve. When the tank is full the float switch cuts power to the solenoid valve and water to the r/o is switched off.

When the water starts again there is usually a tds spike in the output water of the r/o (tds creep). The best way to save resin is to redirect that initial r/o production phase until the r/o has settled down. Doing that will increase the life span of the resin. I don't bother. (My process is r/o, di and then storage tank. I pump pure water onto the van/vans.)

I have an inline tds meter so do periodically monitor the r/o performance. I have a sensor on the output of the r/o before the di and the seond one on the di output.   

[Spruce]

I have a 4040 with an HF5 membrane and no booster pump. Our water pressure is 50 psi and r/o gets the water down to 2. Tap tds is 112 atm.

The previous r/o was a 450gpd and that also preformed the same, tds down to 2.

The 450 gpd was fast enough to provide 2 of us with water, although we had to ration it toward the end of the week.

Should have bought this 4040 long time before we did. R/o is now 4 years old with the same membrane.

We could clean windows with a ppm of 2 and save on resin, but I choose to polish it off to zero.

 Hi Spruce, how often do you flush your RO and for how long, I'm just wondering because my water pressure and Tap tds
 is the same as yours, but i don't know if my membrane is a HF4 or HF5, never taken it out, bought my van & system 4 years ago.
 I Flush my system at the start of every fill for 10 minutes.

 Regards
Lal

I know mines an HF5 as I bought an HF5. I can't recall if it has HF5 on the membrane to identify it tbh but its was clearly marked as an hf5 on the packaging and I paid the higher price for it.

I honestly don't flush very often. I replaced the prefilters about 6 weeks ago and haven't flushed the system since then.

On the occasion I do flush it is usually for a max of 5 minutes.

June from GAPS water once said that flushing a membrane every time is a waste. I haven't had any bad results from not doing it. But if I lived in a hard water area, then I would do it much more regularly.

Ian Lancaster on here has his on a 24 hr timer. When the r/o has worked for 24 hours the timer kicks in an operates a bypass solenoid valve on the waste. He runs a flush for 15 minutes. I believe he lives in a hard water area.
-

[trafficjamz]

I have 20" prefilters and use a sediment and Fiberdyne carbon block filter. I get them from Gardiner.
I think Doug sells the 4021 with 10" prefilters and he has a Fiberdyne equivalent in stock.

Yes Doug sold me the H5 4021 and 6 x Sediment filters.  I should be changing them every month. (10,000ltr)
The carbon block that Doug sells is called PENTEK Chlorplus. and that has a service life of 189,000ltrs. So that should last me a while!

I have a water meter on my system so I know when to replace them.

You are on a water meter? or is this a gadget that counts the water passed through?

The manufacturers will be building in a safety margin so for all I know, these filters could be good for the removal of more chlorine than the 78k.  So I believe that sticking to the manufacturers recommendations is the best way forward for me.

Doug mentioned that there's a way of testing the level of chlorine in your water.  He said to test the water after the carbon filter and before the membrane, and if chlorine is detected, change the filter immediately as the chlorine is entering the membrane.  I need to look into this method.

A float switch in the tank operates a normally close solenoid valve. When the tank is full the float switch cuts power to the solenoid valve and water to the r/o is switched off.

I used to to use an auto shut off with my last ro system, but there was no solenoid and electric involved, just a little module that detected when it was blocked by the float valve closing.

I have an inline tds meter so do periodically monitor the r/o performance. I have a sensor on the output of the r/o before the di and the seond one on the di output.   

I also have ordered the dual inline tds meter.  I thought it was for checking incoming tds from tap and outgoing.  But I can see how your method is useful for detecting ro and/or di changes.

[Spruce]

I have 20" prefilters and use a sediment and Fiberdyne carbon block filter. I get them from Gardiner.
I think Doug sells the 4021 with 10" prefilters and he has a Fiberdyne equivalent in stock.

Yes Doug sold me the H5 4021 and 6 x Sediment filters.  I should be changing them every month. (10,000ltr)
The carbon block that Doug sells is called PENTEK Chlorplus. and that has a service life of 189,000ltrs. So that should last me a while!

It should do.  Our water supply is very sediment laden so at times I've had to replace my sediment filter once a month. It was clogged up with sediment. (All the windies in our area were all suffering with the same problem.)
The last sediment filter lasted the same time as the c/b so was in for about 80k. I have a pressure gauge each side of the prefilters. When the gauge on the inlet side reads 50psi and the gauge on the output side reads 35 psi, I change the sediment filter.
The first carbon block I purchased was a 1 micron where the sediment filters are 5 micron. With our water we had issues as the carbon block was blocking up with 2 to 4 micron sediment that the sediment prefilter wasn't trapping. If I remember it lasted 1/2 the time it should have as it was so blocked up with sediment. I tried to jet the sediment off and backflush the filter by reversing the water flow (whilst the filter was on a table outside,) but it didn't work. I've found the 5 micron c/b worked well as what the sediment filter didn't trap the c/b didn't trap either.

I have a water meter on my system so I know when to replace them.

You are on a water meter? or is this a gadget that counts the water passed through?

Its another water meter that counts the water going through the r/o. I'm not on a water meter.

The manufacturers will be building in a safety margin so for all I know, these filters could be good for the removal of more chlorine than the 78k.  So I believe that sticking to the manufacturers recommendations is the best way forward for me.

Doug mentioned that there's a way of testing the level of chlorine in your water.  He said to test the water after the carbon filter and before the membrane, and if chlorine is detected, change the filter immediately as the chlorine is entering the membrane.  I need to look into this method.

We used to use a chlorine ( and ph or acid/alkaline ) test kit for our swimming pool in South Africa. You catch a predetermined amount or volume of water in a test tube and put a couple of drops from the tester into the water and check the resultant  colour of the water against a colour chart. This will tell you the amount of chlorine in the water at test time.

A float switch in the tank operates a normally closed solenoid valve. When the tank is full the float switch cuts power to the solenoid valve and water to the r/o is switched off.

I used to to use an auto shut off with my last ro system, but there was no solenoid and electric involved, just a little module that detected when it was blocked by the float valve closing.

It may work on your previous r/o but I doubt it will work on your new one.

I have an inline tds meter so do periodically monitor the r/o performance. I have a sensor on the output of the r/o before the di and the seond one on the di output.   

I also have ordered the dual inline tds meter.  I thought it was for checking incoming tds from tap and outgoing.  But I can see how your method is useful for detecting ro and/or di changes.

That what it's purpose is for. However what I want to know is the tds of the pure from the r/o and the tds of the pure leaving the di. I find its also an easy way to find the pure to waste ratio for optimum r/o performance. You open and close the water gate (never close waste totally) until the tds from your r/o is at its lowest.

When the tds leaving the di creeps up to 1 then I give the di vessel a shake. When it starts again, usually a week or so later, I replace the resin in the di. I also change both prefilters at the same time.

Replies in red.

[liviu pastravanu]

Hi guys,

Just starting out window cleaning and looking for a 4040. Found this one on ebay 282108315290  why is it so cheap compared to other suppliers?

Thanks
Liviu

[Ian Lancaster]

Hi guys,

Just starting out window cleaning and looking for a 4040. Found this one on ebay 282108315290  why is it so cheap compared to other suppliers?

Thanks
Liviu

I'm no expert on manufacturers but I don't recognise the coding on the membrane, other than that it is a 40/40 (4" dia x 40" length).  It says "HF" but there's no number after that.  A new HF5 membrane is about  £280+ including VAT.  That doesn't leave a lot for the rest of the equipment.  Having said that, it's only 3 prefilter housings with filters and the membrane housing, there's no plumbing from the prefilters to the membrane or after it.  The gate valve is (I presume) to regulate the pure/waster ratio but there's no provision to flush the membrane.

It will probably do the job (the seller has a 99.9% feedback) but it will need a bit of 'tweaking' before it's ready to fill your storage tank with pure.