[David Beecroft]

Good evening, I'm in the market for a new 500litre tank.
Much is made of "crash tested" cages and the safety implications, however I am yet to be convinced as I have yet to see actual facts and figures. Yes like everyone else I've seen you tube videos of crash testing but they don't show a comparative test of a tank strapped down by heavy load ratchet straps attached to the cargo hooks which are bolted to the floor. The motor industry use ratchet straps to secure 2 ton cars on the back of transporters and nobody seems to think that's unsafe. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be set straight but give me hard evidence not a sales pitch.

[Gerald Ash]

Any restraint is only as strong as it's weakest point. Metal is affected by corrosion accelerated by pure water. The load points are metal. Most crashes are relatively low speed and the straps would probably be fine.
That one day when you are travelling at forty to fifty and the car coming the other way at the same speed hits you. You will have a brief moment to think of that half a tonne behind you that's now been magnified in force to several tonnes heading towards you.
I'd have the cage because I'm a wimp, but a live wimp.
If you have family, get the cage.

[Smurf]

You've hit the nail on the head there as it's not so much using ratchet straps but what they are connected to if the load remains still secured on an impact or not.  Some for convenience attach the ratchet straps to those poxy spot welded loading eyes in the rear of the van but most will likely rip off in a collision.

[David Beecroft]

Now that's exactly what I mean. Surely, what you quite correctly say about the weakest point and metal corrosion, is just as true regarding the fixing points of a cage, except you're actually increasing the weight of the load by adding  all that stainless steel. If the fixings are the same the only difference would be the stress load on the webbing as compared to the welding points on the steel frame. Convince me. 

[David Beecroft]

I should add that I'm driving a Connect and the 6 fixing points are factory fitted 12mm bolts through the floor. 

[8weekly]

Hmmm, both vans & any I buy would have a factory fitted bulkhead. Logically, this should be as good as bolts through the floor. No?

[David Beecroft]

Yes I would have thought so, my Connect also has a factory fitted steel bulkhead. 

[johnwillan]

Hi David

You need to restrict any possible chance of movement by creating a barrier around the tank particularly around the base front and rear. These can be held in place using M12 Bolts and Spreader plates the straps would then attach to the base providing a safe load. This DIY method simply replaces the upper frame section with the straps, however frames also provide the opportunity to fix controllers, pumps, filters etc. I always used DIY systems but now use Grippamax.

HTH

John

[Clever Forum Name]

I had my first grippamax system installed in 2014.

850L system.

A The van drives like it's not carrying water.

B The frame work and tank is heavily over engineered.

C Everyone claims to earn £10000000's cleaning windows so 3-5 k on a system is nothing.

[cgh window cleaning]

I had my first grippamax system installed in 2014.

850L system.

A The van drives like it's not carrying water.

B The frame work and tank is heavily over engineered.

C Everyone claims to earn £10000000's cleaning windows so 3-5 k on a system is nothing.

Completely agree I have a grippa system and don,t regret spending the money on it one bit.
The fact the tank handles so well and is crash tested is one of the reasons I choose grippa.
I have a full steel bulkhead in van in the event of a crash ever happening I want to reduce the risk to my self and others as much as possible. So a fitted system was the only option.

[capn sparkle]

I'm really unsure whether ratchet straps or a bolted  through the floor system would be safest. However my grandchildren decided that come Xmas they would rather have smaller presents this year than none next year!

Tank, cage, spreader plates and decent bolts - professionally fitted - you only get ONE chance.

 

[dazmond]

Yes I would have thought so, my Connect also has a factory fitted steel bulkhead. 

david i have a connect and i had a brand new 500L upright tank and frame fitted for £100(local bodywork specialist garage).have it fitted lengthways in the van(so you dont overload the axles).

£400 for wydale tank and steel frame(cleaning warehouse)

£100 fitting so £500 altogether.

you dont need to spend a lot to get a secure tank in the back of your van but anything over 500L id get a grippamax/pure freedom/xline set up.

the thing is theres no point in fitting an all singing,bells and whistles system if you have a second hand van thats say 5-10 years old.if its brand new van and you plan on keeping it for 10-15 years then maybe.

im lucky as my tap tds is 029 so a simple DI system is all thats needed.

ive spent a lot more on poles/brushes/goosenecks than i have on tanks/pumps,controllers etc(around 3k).

i do very little mileage as my van is just used for work(2500-3000 miles a year)so i cant justify buying a brand new van and professional fitted system.

[Dave Willis]

Yes, fit it lengthways so the tank can fly through the brackets. 

[EandM]

Buy a pick up...

[dazmond]

Yes, fit it lengthways so the tank can fly through the brackets. 

its the best way dave in my van for even distribution of weight and no overloaded axles.its solid.had it 2 years now and im very happy with it.cheap too.

[SeanK]

Hmmm, both vans & any I buy would have a factory fitted bulkhead. Logically, this should be as good as bolts through the floor. No?

Yes at least it should keep you dry when your pinned between it and the steering wheel, 650lt tank would go through it like
a pen through paper.
There's nothing 100% safe but I wouldn't have ratchet straps about me with the weight I carry, remember if you lose one
fixing point with a steel cage still have another three holding the frame, lose one with ratchet straps and you only have two.
See how easily a tank can move when one of the ratchet straps is removed.
Just make sure the cage is bolted to plates under the floor and not directly to the floor as that would be no better than straps.

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

I had my first grippamax system installed in 2014.

850L system.

A The van drives like it's not carrying water.

B The frame work and tank is heavily over engineered.

C Everyone claims to earn £10000000's cleaning windows so 3-5 k on a system is nothing.

Completely agree I have a grippa system and don,t regret spending the money on it one bit.
The fact the tank handles so well and is crash tested is one of the reasons I choose grippa.
I have a full steel bulkhead in van in the event of a crash ever happening I want to reduce the risk to my self and others as much as possible. So a fitted system was the only option.

Thank for all your mentions of our brand and your experience with it.

We would also add that water is an unstable load, and the velocity of the water traveling unpredictably in an accident is one of the key reasons to a properly designed and professionally fitted system. This system should be both  accredited and manage the water correctly amongst a number of different features.

Please do let us know if we can help any further.

[Dave Willis]

I have a 1000l tank in my Renault Twizzy with only one bungy strap. Had it five years now and it's never moved.                                                                        ..............,........ Off the drive. Cheap too.

[Perfect Windows]

I do love the posts where people say they haven't had a problem with their tank that is held down by

A cage made by a mate down the pub
The bulkhead
Ratchet straps through the luggage loops
A bungee cord held down at the other end by a canary
etc, etc.

The only time you'll know if you have a problem will be as the tank comes through the bulkhead and the last thing to go through your mind will be your arsehole.

Vin

[David Beecroft]

"There's nothing 100% safe but I wouldn't have ratchet straps about me with the weight I carry, remember if you lose one
fixing point with a steel cage still have another three holding the frame, lose one with ratchet straps and you only have two."
Now thats the first thing anybody's said that makes any sense.
Everyone else is just repeating sales talk thats persuaded them to part with extra cash, I notice nobody has made any reference to comparative tests between steel cages and industrial ratchet straps.
If they exist I would be keen to study them.
Just to be clear, I am not advocating anyone taking stupid risks, better safe than sorry. But lets have the facts not waffle.