[Marc Stock]

Just a question. I started window cleaning back in 2002. Back then professional window cleaners were alot rarer, most chaps used old bangers and ladders i know this because i started with ladders and a banger. It wasn't until a year later that i bought a van and a year again went by and i bought a brodex e compact and started out on wfp.

Id say that between 2004-2008 were the golden years of wfp earnings . I was picking up commercial jobs left right and centre,  as many others were too. Those were the days of another forum when it existed and momentum really picked up. Some people were earning in excess of £500  an hour doing massive blocks of flats  or offices in a morning, when guys on cradles would take 4 or 5 days including all the health and saftey bs and wfp would sweep the work out from under thier feet.

Now it seems the opposite. Eveyone i have seen enter into windowcleaning do so thinking they are going to make a fortune, and in reality prices have fallen and become less lucrative. Plus so many people seem to be jumping into the window cleaning bandwagon thinking its easy money. But in reality its pushing prices down and reducing lucrative work. Im beginning to think that window cleaning is going to see a turndown as it saturates with more and more 'professional' kitted out vans and i have noticed that its getting harder to pick up regular customers as the customer base is getting younger and they just dont have the spare cash.

Whats your thoughts chaps?

£500 an hour?ciu is getting more ridiculous as times passes! .

i didnt go wfp until 2010 after 17 years on the ladders.things have steadily improved for me earnings wise year on year as well as working  a shorter day actually cleaning the windows.

theres always been a lot of window cleaners about as theres lots of windows that need cleaning all over the area(and country)you work in.

yes theres more wfpolers and sign written vans about but at the end of the day if the customers dont like you as a person or your attitude stinks and you  provide a crap service your gonna  lose customers over time.

im happy with my current workload/income/prices etc.yes i do lose the odd customer here and there for whatever reason but theres always a new customer just around the corner.until this stops happening i wont worry about "other" window cleaners and their businesses.i concentrate on my own.

since the downturn/recession of 2008 my business has gone from strength to strength.coupled with getting computer literate in 2009,finding this site and wfp in 2010.its absolutely turned my window cleaning round into a good solid profitable business that i could of only dreamt about beforehand.

in fact when a lot of people had it good in the early 2000s i was struggling big time with money,debt and personal issues.

I'm not sure quite how to take your comments, I hope they are not directed at me here because that wouldn't be particularly professional either.

All I was saying was at the time, I know for a fact for a short while wfp was very lucrative in the larger office blocks and flats, and many window cleaners didn't like wfp to start with because of this. There was a definate divide amongst traddies and wfpers to start with. When you consider that to clean windows off a cradle vs using water fed poles the costs of just having health and safety do the sign off for inspection of equipment often could run into the hundreds or even thousands before any labour is charged actually doing the job (especially as it was in many cases if the equipment installed at the building hadn't been touched for 5 years)

On that basis alone if your a facilities manager looking at having the windows cleaned, it can be a very expensive proposition and thus some just didn't bother becouse of the costs. When wfp came along this changed things you could quote them £500 a clean for example and they would bite your arm off they didnt care at the time you could have it done in an hour, they just wanted it done with out spending hundreds or thousands on checking cradles. I know becouse I used to have work on worple road and we won work on this exact basis and made a lot of money during that period. As did many others at that time.  About 2008 things started to turn and prices tumbled in that kind of work so I got out, and now it's all rock bottom. You can still make a good living out of it but the bubble burst long ago.

I rember I had all brodex kit back then a 57 foot carbon pole as thick as a tree cost me £1200plus vat back then. The sections were so long you had to extend it up the building we actually put some wheels on the flat side of the brush to stop scuffing the render. At the Peak I had 30 different sites like this and bought a house with the money I was only 25. Wfp really was serious money in those kind of jobs,

Doing the work was fun, people stopping and staring wondering what this huge pole was. It wasn't a common sight back then.

[Smurf]

Nice informative post there Marc.

[Spruce]

Just a question. I started window cleaning back in 2002. Back then professional window cleaners were alot rarer, most chaps used old bangers and ladders i know this because i started with ladders and a banger. It wasn't until a year later that i bought a van and a year again went by and i bought a brodex e compact and started out on wfp.

Id say that between 2004-2008 were the golden years of wfp earnings . I was picking up commercial jobs left right and centre,  as many others were too. Those were the days of another forum when it existed and momentum really picked up. Some people were earning in excess of £500  an hour doing massive blocks of flats  or offices in a morning, when guys on cradles would take 4 or 5 days including all the health and saftey bs and wfp would sweep the work out from under thier feet.

Now it seems the opposite. Eveyone i have seen enter into windowcleaning do so thinking they are going to make a fortune, and in reality prices have fallen and become less lucrative. Plus so many people seem to be jumping into the window cleaning bandwagon thinking its easy money. But in reality its pushing prices down and reducing lucrative work. Im beginning to think that window cleaning is going to see a turndown as it saturates with more and more 'professional' kitted out vans and i have noticed that its getting harder to pick up regular customers as the customer base is getting younger and they just dont have the spare cash.

Whats your thoughts chaps?

£500 an hour?ciu is getting more ridiculous as times passes! .

i didnt go wfp until 2010 after 17 years on the ladders.things have steadily improved for me earnings wise year on year as well as working  a shorter day actually cleaning the windows.

theres always been a lot of window cleaners about as theres lots of windows that need cleaning all over the area(and country)you work in.

yes theres more wfpolers and sign written vans about but at the end of the day if the customers dont like you as a person or your attitude stinks and you  provide a crap service your gonna  lose customers over time.

im happy with my current workload/income/prices etc.yes i do lose the odd customer here and there for whatever reason but theres always a new customer just around the corner.until this stops happening i wont worry about "other" window cleaners and their businesses.i concentrate on my own.

since the downturn/recession of 2008 my business has gone from strength to strength.coupled with getting computer literate in 2009,finding this site and wfp in 2010.its absolutely turned my window cleaning round into a good solid profitable business that i could of only dreamt about beforehand.

in fact when a lot of people had it good in the early 2000s i was struggling big time with money,debt and personal issues.

I'm not sure quite how to take your comments, I hope they are not directed at me here because that wouldn't be particularly professional either.

All I was saying was at the time, I know for a fact for a short while wfp was very lucrative in the larger office blocks and flats, and many window cleaners didn't like wfp to start with because of this. There was a definate divide amongst traddies and wfpers to start with. When you consider that to clean windows off a cradle vs using water fed poles the costs of just having health and safety do the sign off for inspection of equipment often could run into the hundreds or even thousands before any labour is charged actually doing the job (especially as it was in many cases if the equipment installed at the building hadn't been touched for 5 years)

On that basis alone if your a facilities manager looking at having the windows cleaned, it can be a very expensive proposition and thus some just didn't bother becouse of the costs. When wfp came along this changed things you could quote them £500 a clean for example and they would bite your arm off they didnt care at the time you could have it done in an hour, they just wanted it done with out spending hundreds or thousands on checking cradles. I know becouse I used to have work on worple road and we won work on this exact basis and made a lot of money during that period. As did many others at that time.  About 2008 things started to turn and prices tumbled in that kind of work so I got out, and now it's all rock bottom. You can still make a good living out of it but the bubble burst long ago.

I rember I had all brodex kit back then a 57 foot carbon pole as thick as a tree cost me £1200plus vat back then. The sections were so long you had to extend it up the building we actually put some wheels on the flat side of the brush to stop scuffing the render. At the Peak I had 30 different sites like this and bought a house with the money I was only 25. Wfp really was serious money in those kind of jobs,

Doing the work was fun, people stopping and staring wondering what this huge pole was. It wasn't a common sight back then.

 
Pre windows cleaning days about 18 years ago I remember watching 2 guys battling to raise a water fed pole to clean some council offices. They also wheeled it up the side of the building. When they finally got it up it needed 2 of them to hold it as it was so heavy.

I still remember the incident as clearly as ever, but the wfp cleaning process never registered with me. I saw the problems but not the benefits back then.

BTW, I can reach those top office windows with my SLX40. How times have changed.

[Micky Barber]

It's definately harder to find work I posted 500 leaflets last week and never got a call okay that's not a huge amount whilst some were clean I'd say half were dirty or filthy people just don't see it as important anymore,  nearly every one had the 50p  bucket of dirty water ladder man in the 70s because it kept him in beer money, the recession has changed peoples attitudes as well although things have apparently improved budgets have been squeezed.

[Dave Willis]

All I know us since going wfp I earn more than 40k than I did at school. Best move I ever made.  I now shop in Waitrose and have two holidays a year at Butlins. I have a nearly new pink Micra convertable and a Goregeous boyfriend. I don't get out of bed for less than sixty pounds an hour - in fact I don't get out of bed at all.

[dazmond]

marc IMO theres nothing "PROFESSIONAL" about making a ridiculous amount of money cleaning windows earning £500 an hour(or any similar amount of money).its just a plain rip off.pure and simple.

yes it was directed at you by the way as you put up this thread.why you surprised that companies are not paying these sums anymore?because they know when their being ripped off thats why!

you can still make a half decent living cleaning windows without being greedy.

[Smurf]

marc IMO theres nothing "PROFESSIONAL" about making a ridiculous amount of money cleaning windows earning £500 an hour(or any similar amount of money).its just a plain rip off.pure and simple.

yes it was directed at you by the way as you put up this thread.why you surprised that companies are not paying these sums anymore?because they know when their being ripped off thats why!

you can still make a half decent living cleaning windows without being greedy.

You can make even a better living by having the balls to charge top dollar (what the job is really worth).
As someone said recently it's not about being greedy but you are in business to make money.

[dazmond]

marc IMO theres nothing "PROFESSIONAL" about making a ridiculous amount of money cleaning windows earning £500 an hour(or any similar amount of money).its just a plain rip off.pure and simple.

yes it was directed at you by the way as you put up this thread.why you surprised that companies are not paying these sums anymore?because they know when their being ripped off thats why!

you can still make a half decent living cleaning windows without being greedy.

You can make even a better living by having the balls to charge top dollar (what the job is really worth).
As someone said recently it's not about being greedy but you are in business to make money.

theres a fine line between being a rip off merchant and charging a good price IMO or just being an unrealistic person expecting too much(eg greedy).

[Johnny B]

I have always believed that 'slow and steady wins the day'.

I apply this not only to working at a steady pace rather than haring about like a lunatic, but also to charging what I consider to be a reasonable price for a job well done, as opposed to getting away with charging as much as I can before the bubble bursts.

During the recession I was still picking up work and was busier than ever,  before I was forced to sell up and relocate to Ireland nearly five years ago.

I still apply the same ethos as I did before, and, although it was tough going for the first 3-4 years, I kept on going and in the last year have been inundated with new and good quality work, I am now well established locally and doing ok. What the 'competition' charges I neither know nor care.

John

[dazmond]

I have always believed that 'slow and steady wins the day'.

I apply this not only to working at a steady pace rather than haring about like a lunatic, but also to charging what I consider to be a reasonable price for a job well done, as opposed to getting away with charging as much as I can before the bubble bursts.

During the recession I was still picking up work and was busier than ever,  before I was forced to sell up and relocate to Ireland nearly five years ago.

I still apply the same ethos as I did before, and, although it was tough going for the first 3-4 years, I kept on going and in the last year have been inundated with new and good quality work, I am now well established locally and doing ok. What the 'competition' charges I neither know nor care.

John

very good post john.i agree absolutely mate.apart from the "slow and steady bit".

brisk and steady!

[Marc Stock]

marc IMO theres nothing "PROFESSIONAL" about making a ridiculous amount of money cleaning windows earning £500 an hour(or any similar amount of money).its just a plain rip off.pure and simple.

yes it was directed at you by the way as you put up this thread.why you surprised that companies are not paying these sums anymore?because they know when their being ripped off thats why!

you can still make a half decent living cleaning windows without being greedy.

You can make even a better living by having the balls to charge top dollar (what the job is really worth).
As someone said recently it's not about being greedy but you are in business to make money.

theres a fine line between being a rip off merchant and charging a good price IMO or just being an unrealistic person expecting too much(eg greedy).

Blimey dazmond. Wind your neck in.

Your sounding bitter in your old age.

This is why i stopped bothering on this forum its full of idiots like you getting all defensive and grumpy. That was what the market demanded back then, its a different story now or are you miffed at yourself for not getting a slice of the action when you could of at the time.

Can i suggest you change your signature of' price higer' to 'i should have priced higher' you look like a fool with your current stance on this conversation and that signature.

[Marc Stock]

It's definately harder to find work I posted 500 leaflets last week and never got a call okay that's not a huge amount whilst some were clean I'd say half were dirty or filthy people just don't see it as important anymore,  nearly every one had the 50p  bucket of dirty water ladder man in the 70s because it kept him in beer money, the recession has changed peoples attitudes as well although things have apparently improved budgets have been squeezed.

Exactly what im eluding to. It is definitely harder competition nowadays. Keep going though.

One thing i did a few years back was to start offering quarterly services, especially for bigger properties. It really worked out well you can charge alot more per clean and they perfer it as they don't feel like they are shelling out all the time.

[Marc Stock]

marc IMO theres nothing "PROFESSIONAL" about making a ridiculous amount of money cleaning windows earning £500 an hour(or any similar amount of money).its just a plain rip off.pure and simple.

yes it was directed at you by the way as you put up this thread.why you surprised that companies are not paying these sums anymore?because they know when their being ripped off thats why!

you can still make a half decent living cleaning windows without being greedy.

You can make even a better living by having the balls to charge top dollar (what the job is really worth).
As someone said recently it's not about being greedy but you are in business to make money.

Exactly smurf. The market pays what the market pays. Back then that was the going rate, now its not; times change simple.

[dazmond]

marc im certainly not bitter.ive never been more content with my income/prices/round etc.

accusing me of being an idiot just because i questioned the morality of ridiculous high prices that cant be charged anymore says more about you than me.

i price fair for both me and the customer IMO.£500 for an hours work is just daylight robbery for cleaning windows whether its commercial work or not in my book.

price higher,work harder is something i put on my profile years ago to motivate me to turn around a rather large underpriced round that i had at the time.....and it worked!

[Smurf]

Just get over the bloody £500 will you as them was the good old days and some will do it for a fiver now so what. 

[dave f]

I think it depends where you live NO IT DOSE .I recently got slagged off for charging in their opinion a low priced job so what....... ill charge what I am comfortable with i work to support my way of living  which I am quite happy with  I don't fall in to the trap of chasing money the more you chase the more you want I agree with you daz .they are a lot of money grabbers .I had a phone call last night for a gutter clean  I knew where the job was and which house I gave the price over the phone I was supirsed the custy said that I was the cheapest out of 5 she had rang the prices they wanted were a rip off

[Smurf]

I think it depends where you live NO IT DOSE .I recently got slagged off for charging in their opinion a low priced job so what....... ill charge what I am comfortable with i work to support my way of living  which I am quite happy with  I don't fall in to the trap of chasing money the more you chase the more you want I agree with you daz .they are a lot of money grabbers .I had a phone call last night for a gutter clean  I knew where the job was and which house I gave the price over the phone I was supirsed the custy said that I was the cheapest out of 5 she had rang the prices they wanted were a rip off

Care to enlighten us what the price you quoted and the 4 others were.

Not being funny but the big giveaway was you were the 5th they phoned so obviously they were looking for the cheapest price anyway. That does not mean the 4 others as you put it were trying to  rip people off as some people are price conditioned that meaning living in the past.

Pricing has always been a contentious subject to discuss but it does annoy me when some people say because they would price a lot lower than the ones that charges more they say are ripping people off. That goes for any part of the country too..

At the end of the day it's up to the potential customer who they want to do the work but most don't  just keep phoning around to get the cheapest quote. I've found most will tend to go with a firm with a good reputation that they feel they can trust and will do a good job so are more than happy to pay more without feeling they are being ripped off.



 

[Marc Stock]

Just get over the bloody £500 will you as them was the good old days and some will do it for a fiver now so what. 

Yeah Dazmond get over it. You lost out on the slice of pie. Now your stuck with the salad.

[Smurf]

Just get over the bloody £500 will you as them was the good old days and some will do it for a fiver now so what. 

Yeah Dazmond get over it. You lost out on the slice of pie. Now your stuck with the salad.

 I do like Marc's sense of humour 

[Dave Willis]

I just put in a commercial quote. Worked it out wrong and doubled my normal price. Got ghe job too thev'e given the current cleaner a months notice.