[dave f]

lately ive noticed a few more new wfp vans and trolley users around were I work of late and I think one or 2 are guys out of town  looking at there contact numbers, it seems that to me if you have a wfp system you increase your work load so have to spread out further a field its gonna get to saturation  point  there will be less and less traders I was  asked the other day if I would start doing a semi simply because the old windy could not get to the window over the conny  and with a lot of 3 story town houses going up it  will be harder to get new accounts in some areas if you are a trader me thinks. I think time will tell

[NWH]

Everywhere I go it's WFP these days the local villages might have the odd trad cleaner but on the whole even if they still work trad most of them have a trolley or backpack of some kind,any way you look at it it's getting away from ladders whether it be for H&S or speed. There's no escaping it the truth is it's more profitable and safer way to work.

[Smudger]

While WFP outnumbers trad cleaners on here, in the real world there are more trad than WFP - in our area Norfolk broads it's about 4 trad to every 1 WFP - the biggest difference I see between the 2 is the majority of WFP work from a van of which 90% are sign written where all but 2 trad windies work from car, push bike or walk ( not a single one has any form of sign writing )

Yes I've seen an increase in WFP - some were trad cleaners but most new to window cleaning the trad cleaners I know are not interested in spending out to go WFP even a guy who's knees are totally shot, if this winter is long and bad I wager that February will see a huge amount of equipment on fleabay

Darran

[G Griffin]

Wfp will render trad obsolete, eventually. Well. ladder work at least.
But I think something will supersede wfp, in time. There's got to be something easier than carting all that water about.
Maybe something that recycles the water (or some of it).

[dazmond]

a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".

im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.

its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.

[Smudger]

a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".

im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.

its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.

Spot on

[SB Cleaning]

a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".

im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.

its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.

I have a lot to thank this forum for too!!

In the areas I work I would say trad out numbers wfp.

[dave f]

the more wfp users the less work they will be simply because you are getting through your work quickly as I found out so to fill the day I went out canvasing to fill in the gaps and now I have more work than you can shake a stick at but having said that were I live there as been a couple of  guys switch to wfp so they are catching up, one imparticular as copied my details of my van all most to the letter except for the name.which psses  me of because I get asked by my customers  have I got some one else working for me 

[stan stansfield]

i know of over 20 laddermen around here,2 pole polishers and a couple of lads doing both

[Walter Mitty]

its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.

Money and what the customers might think are the two things I hear most as well.
As far as money goes, it's true that many will need to take on some debt to make the switch.  Initially, there probably won't be extra turnover to service that debt - indeed, some will lose a few customers.  So there is an initial period of gettig used to WFP which can mean going slower at first.  The good bit comes a bit later when the speed comes.  At one point, some years ago, I had a six-weekly round that I was servicing in three and a half weeks.  The mistake I made was in filling much of that gap with subcontracted commercial (and some residential) work rather than getting my own work.

I also hear some worrying about what the customers will think.  This is only valid if the customers act upon those thoughts.  I lost a few jobs over it.  I also experienced a higher number of mystery cancellations than normal.  It can take a while to start getting work BECAUSE OF WFP.  It happens fairly regularly now though.

[Smurf]

Most established windy's that I have seen about and spoken to are predominately wfp but can still trad. Then there are a few trad that do it for pin money as a stop gap whilst in between jobs etc. Or in my wifes case that hired a window cleaner donky years ago in between getting locked up or being on the run. Needless to say he wasn’t all that regular   

[JSMC]

to say guys who do trad dont have much money is laughable.i know of one guy all trad work who has had a business over 40 years and could show all every one of us how to run a business  very well.

WFP guys sometimes think they are a step above the normal trad guy

[Dave Willis]

Wfp will render trad obsolete, eventually. Well. ladder work at least.
But I think something will supersede wfp, in time. There's got to be something easier than carting all that water about.
Maybe something that recycles the water (or some of it).

I'd agree with that, bloody mad carrying 650l of water about and chucking twice as much down the drain - almost a backward step, environmentalists would have a field day knowing how much drinking water gets thrown at the windows.

[Walter Mitty]

to say guys who do trad dont have much money is laughable.

I didn't notice anyone saying that.  Some do very well working that way.  I believe that most would do even better with WFP.

[dave f]

why  you would run up and down a ladder is beyond me when there is an alternative and a chance to make more money more safely and dare I say quicker after all we are all in this game to make as much as we can why risk your neck. I can see this go off topic

[Smurf]

why  you would run up and down a ladder is beyond me when there is an alternative and a chance to make more money more safely and dare I say quicker after all we are all in this game to make as much as we can why risk your neck. I can see this go off topic

Yep so can I as is already turning into trad vs wfp which has been done to death already. 

[SeanK]

There's a couple of big employers in my area and they are both traditional, one has about 25 employees and I think they
work in squads of about 5, they can do an average semi in around a minute so that's about 5mins per property wage wise
cant see them being in a rush to convert to wfp any time soon.

[cgh window cleaning]

There are a lot of trad window cleaners where I am,I even know one who doesn't  drive and he will never change nearly all of the old skool window cleaners are and will remain trad where I live.

I think for new starters it's there first port of call it's fairly cheap to set up and easier to learn than  trad.
Forget the health and safety and the speed aspect for a minute but there is a hell of a lot of wfp window cleaners that can't trad and are scarred of heights.

[Smudger]

Not scared of heights, just don't like hitting the ground at 50 mph !!

Darran

[Smurf]

Not scared of heights, just don't like hitting the ground at 50 mph !!

Darran

 

As they say the falling bit is easy but the sudden stop at the end hurts like hell